Dear Bruce, et al: Yeah, I should probably apologize as well. As you say, every time we have one of these arguments, both sides get lumped in with the true 'bad guys' in this hobby (and there are sooooo many of them that it's not fair to either of us). Same with Lieberman. I try to point out (yet it's probably never very clear, as I do tend to be a bit of a know-it-all asshole) that I don't consider you two the bad guys. I may have issues with your marketing and promotion methods, and we may snipe back and forth, but that's a whole other sport than what the real bad guys are doing. Not even comparable in the slightest. Again, it's really a shade of grey and not worth arguing about. Both of you have done far more good for the hobby than bad (much more so than I). I think it all stems from the fact that over the years, I've been (arguably) a professional gambler in several different disciplines (poker, billiards and horses). While all of those industries are thought to be dishonorable, I have found them all to be probably far more honorable than any other. I'm old-school. So, while you're expected to lie in poker, you'll also get shot for cheating. So, whenever I see a company stretch the truth when they're trying to get someone's money, I get my panties in a bunch. But, again, that's arguable, as you don't expect any marketing materials to be the God's-honest truth... Which, again, is why I'm saying that any problems I have with Dave or Bruce are absolutely miniscule compared to the real problems in this hobby. I love to argue (and so do B&D), so it always seems much worse than it actually is. The real bad guys have long since learned to keep their mouths shut (leaving the good guys to fight amongst themselves and take the pressure off them). So, you're absolutely right. We really need to join forces and start bickering about the real problems out there. The inserts we are (stupidly) arguing about are still circulating. Same with all the other bootlegs. The bad guys must be sitting there laughing at us. So, I shall cease and desist too, and focus my energy where it belongs, on the real bad guys (plus, I'm moving right now, so most of my computer equipment is in boxes)...
"Are you talking about Thomas Loce here: "And, I've never, ever slandered anyone on the internet, not even Loce" I ask this because I'm curious about what you or others have on him." While I won't go into detail, let's just say that if he ever decided to make good on his threats and sue anyone in the poster hobby (even Lieberman), that I'd probably be on the first plane to the courthouse with what would likely be enough to get the case dismissed on the spot (and perhaps make for some serious counter-claim issues that would make his life a bit miserable). But, then, he's been threatening lawsuits for years to no fruition (not a surprise there, considering)... And, actually, I should point out that even though Dave and I have our differences, I do have a fair bit of respect for him for being one of only a tiny handful of people willing to go on the record about Loce/Richter (and he was probably the most vocal of the group). He deserves wicked props for that. Cheers, Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: Bruce Hershenson To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 4:49 AM Subject: Re: [MOPO] E.T. BIKE POSTER - Can we clear up another difference of opinion? I am glad you weren't long-winded. I will make this simple. I should not have said you "slandered" me because I am not a lawyer, and did not even take law in college, which I guess is about the same. I publically apologize for that. You now say "I don't think Bruce ever sided with the minty whites per se, but he sure did make fun of us for claiming that they were fakes". I will cease arguing whether you ever said otherwise. Please simply show me one or more examples of when and how I "made fun of you" for claiming they are fakes, and I will apologize for that as well. I am just trying to finally put this to rest, and I will gladly apologize for any "making fun" I may have ever done of you, once you can establish that you are not confusing something I said with something someone else said. Once that is established, I will gladly cease to ever mention you or contact you in any way, if that is your preference. Thanks. Bruce On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 6:01 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Dear Mopo: I wrote a big, long-winded reply to this, but decided not to post it (needless to say, it didn't make Bruce look good). Despite what Bruce seems to think, I don't wish him ill-will. Despite some iffy things, I don't consider him one of the 'bad guys' (Lieberman either). So, over the years, I've with-held some information that doesn't make him look good. I have bigger fish to fry. But, if he keeps it up, I may just post it anyways (he didn't listen to me the last time I gave him this kind of warning, to his grave detriment)... I shall simply point out my very last exchange with Bruce here on Mopo (he must have forgotten how bad he looked). This is a quote from a Mopo email (around 6pm on January 31st of this year, in case anyone wants to check) of mine after Bruce had (falsely) accused me of slander (what he actually meant was libel - which was a false accusation as well, but I hesitated to point out his mistake, as I didn't want to make him look too stupid): "And, I've never, ever slandered anyone on the internet, not even Loce (I took law in college, so I know how to frame criticisms). So, before you accuse me (aren't false accusations slander?), why don't you post my 'slanderous comments' here for everyone to see? That's right, you won't..." You will notice that Bruce disappeared after that and never posted again in the thread. The so-called proof should have been easy to find (it wasn't from over the course of years, almost a decade ago - what he was referring to was recent and from one or two short threads that would have been easy to track down). So, isn't it a bit hypocritical of him to ask me for proof (that's not the least bit feasible to track down and doesn't exist in the Mopo archives, on archive.org or in google's cache) about my beliefs as to his opinion about posters I don't care about from years and years ago, when he refused to provide proof of his public accusations of criminal activity against me?!? If Dave has balls the size of small planetoids, Bruce must have balls the size of whatever's causing dark-flow... Cheers, Bob PS. I don't think Bruce ever sided with the minty whites per se, but he sure did make fun of us for claiming that they were fakes. So, if you make fun of someone for stating an opinion, that sure as hell implies that you disagree with said opinion... ----- Original Message ----- From: Bruce Hershenson To: [email protected] Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 4:55 PM Subject: Re: [MOPO] E.T. BIKE POSTER - Can we clear up another difference of opinion? In thsi spirit of "clearing the air", I thought this would be a great time for Bob Brooks to confirm or deny something he has posted repeatedly, namely that I (Bruce Hershenson) at one time defended the "minty white" inserts as genuine, and that it was only after Bob and Dan exposed them as fakes that I changed my tune and denounced them. I am not calling Mr. Brooks a liar, but I have no memory of the above events happening, and I am wondering if it is possible that Mr. Brooks is either mis-remembering the series of events, or perhaps confusing me with some other person. I ask him to produce the evidence of his repeated statements to the above sequence of events (posts from forums, my e-mail club, private e-mails, etc). If he can, I will publically apologize to him for ever having doubted him, and for ever saying these fake inserts were real. If he can't, I don't care if he apologizes, but ask that never again post something along these lines, since he would have no factual proof of what he said. I know that I was first warned about these inserts long before Bob or Dan ever posted about them, for I was privately contacted by two major dealers who were offered them soon after they first appeared (were printed), and who turned them down and who called me to warn me about these fakes. According to Bob's memory of events, I would have had to then go on and begin defending these after that time, which seems to me to indicate a clear memory lapse on his part. I am very much hoping to settle this, because I think there are clear "bad guys" in this hobby (who repeatedly sell fakes as real) and I think it hampers efforts to stop them or at least slow their criminal behavior when some of the "good guys" fight amongst themselves. Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___________________________________________________________________ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content. Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___________________________________________________________________ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.0/1773 - Release Date: 11/7/2008 9:08 AM Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___________________________________________________________________ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
