I might have mised a few emails due to spam control but I thought
MIchaelB was joking. Am I wrong?
Wim
Op 3 feb 2009, om 07:57 heeft Ari Richards het volgende geschreven:
I admit to being shocked at some of the replies.
Ari
--- On Tue, 3/2/09, David Kusumoto <[email protected]> wrote:
From: David Kusumoto <[email protected]>
Subject: [MOPO] those testimonials for tloceposters
To: [email protected]
Received: Tuesday, 3 February, 2009, 2:43 PM
No, Sean, you are not alone. Had I more time to get involved in
daily discussions, I would post more. But coming across yours, I
feel compelled to comment on the "moral compass" issue. I equally
object to dealing with a known seller of fakes, however allegedly
"inadvertent," a.k.a. those whose testimonials have the effect of
casting Mr. Loce's actions like an "honest mistake" or "just a part
of doing business" in the competitive marketplace. I bought several
minty whites from those guys many years ago and unloaded them all
for free to friends who didn't care after I told them they were
repros. (I didn't discover until LONG after I bought them that they
were phony and figured my statute of limitations had run out seeking
a refund for posters acquired for "too good to be true prices.")
To me, it appears at MoPo we've been reading -- during the last two
days -- testimonials from people who -- while not condoning the
practice of selling fakes -- appear to shrug off the issue on the
basis of their own personal, one-on-one dealings, e.g., sounding
along the lines of, "I'm aware of the controversy associated with
Mr. Loce, but because I haven't been ripped off personally (or by
much) -- and because my communications with him have been cordial,
friendly, etc., he appears to be an otherwise nice guy, blah-blah-
blah - hence he hasn't been a crook to ME" -- with the word, "ME"
being the emphasis. You get the feeling reading these testimonials
that he's being re-cast as an "everyone makes mistakes" and "he's
not all bad" guy because we're once again -- NOT HEARING from many
of those too-g**-damn-quiet people who are afraid of him or who
think it's bad manners among the "group-think" to throw a dealer or
a customer -- under the bus for any reason. I am definitely
sounding sanctimonious when I say I would not go out of my way to
PUBLICLY defend a "friend" considered dodgy in many collecting
harbors. (I might add, however, that I might approach or defend
such a "friend" privately, one-on-one; but if a true "friend"
accused of such behavior lacks contrition, it's safe to say I'd end
that friendship.)
To me, dealing with people who occasionally do business with shady
characters, looking the other way so long as they themselves have
not been personally ripped off -- reminds me of the time when Sue
Heim's posters were stolen years ago by convicted felon Joe
Hernandez and she had a list of dealers who knowingly bought the
material "hot" without knowing that she personally was the victim.
She had good manners and dealt with it in her own way. But she
never forgot, esp. when people rushed to his defense or attempted to
dilute the offenses in weird-ass ways. I would not want to be
associated with, be friends with or do business with any person
continuing to engage in transactions with known deceptive
practices. So what if you got your money back? It's not a wash
just because you got some "good with bad." You simply cut your
losses by being proactive or getting lucky. It's astonishing to
read such rationalizations as if the guy is going through some sort
of re-hab hence shouldn't be kicked too harshly.
-kuz.
-----Original Message-----
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 21:44:05 -0500
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: tloceposters
To: [email protected]
I was always taught that when you can identify someone who knowingly
sells reproductions as originals (for over a decade) at a minimum,
and more than likely contributed to their manufacture, you should do
everything you can to NOT deal with that person.
The attitude here seems to be one of, well as long as he is pleasant
about trying to rip me off, and as long as I can get a refund if I
happen to discover his schemes I am ok in dealing with him.
For some reason I don’t have the attitude that it’s ok to knowingly
deal with someone who purposefully tries to pass off fake posters as
being legitimate and who has driven countless numbers of people out
of the hobby when they find out how they’ve been ripped off and no
one warned them and/or others had the attitude of “oh yeah, most
people have been ripped off by him before.”
I’m amazed by the lack of a moral center by the members of MoPo.
But I guess that’s just me.
From: MoPo List [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
Michael B
Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 7:20 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [MOPO] tloceposters
he is getting play here. does anyone have his direct email so i can
send him my want list?
mbb
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