The scenario you mention assumes that a new hotel would be more expensive. I've been helping run a convention for a while, and we've changed hotels a number of times. Our most recent change was to a MUCH better hotel at about the same price - this for a variety of reasons (the hotel is new and is fishing for new annual/repeat business, the location is different, our attendance is increasing making our business more attractive to the hotel). And one of the reasons we changed this last time is because we bothered to listen to the complaints of our attendees (though the hotel problems were self-evident anyway). I know every situation is different, and I'm not presuming to know what theirs is, but maybe the Cinevent runners should at least shop around for a different venue - they may be pleasantly surprised that they might get a better hotel for a CHEAPER price. -Steve
________________________________ From: Richard Halegua Comic Art <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 2:53:21 PM Subject: Re: [MOPO] hollywood poster auction & DISCUSSION Franc your comment is really very shallow. It is a singular perspective that does not take into account the full spectrum of problems any convention promoter faces. For instance, my cost to be at and exhibit at Cinevent is approximately $1600 let's say they move to a hotel that costs 30% more. My expenses increase proportionately and now I either have to sell more to get to the same financial spot that I had with lower costs. This brings in the equation of whether my expanded costs justify being able to do the show versus staying home & just doing my weekly auction. then my absence & other dealer's absence means less material for sale in the room to which buyers cease to come which in turn decreases the income to the show promoters and the eventual disappearance of the show due to falling revenues. and so, we lose one of the last bastions of poster conventions and the hobby gets that much smaller. which do you prefer.. a convention in a crappy facility or no convention at all.? In all likelihood, that is the equation you have to deal with. as a metaphor: I'm a poker player. If I have a choice of a game that takes place in the ast stall of the men's room at the Mirage, or no game at all.. well, I'll just have to be listening to people crapping all day Rich At 12:20 PM 5/26/2009, Franc wrote: Consider this. There are a lot of really nice Convention-type hotels in the area. Their room rates are really cheap over Memorial Day Weekend. Not a lot of people want to spend their holidays in Columbus. We checked several looking for an alternative to the Ramada dump and they were in the neighborhood of $80 a night and several of the luxury hotels like the Renaissance were $100 a night and remember you get a discount when you can guarantee the quantity of rooms take up by attendees at a Convention. I did get a sense that the convention did not do particularly well this year. Most of that may be the economy but perhaps taking a new approach to this convention and providing some quality facilities will inspire more people to bring their families for the weekend. The fact that this convention has been handled this way for 40 years is no excuse for complacency. FRANC -----Original Message----- From: Richard Halegua Comic Art [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 3:03 PM To: Franc; [email protected] Subject: Re: [MOPO] hollywood poster auction & DISCUSSION Franc my first Cinevent was in 1986.. I went steadily until I moved to Vegas & missed 1994-2000, then I have returned ever since. Tom Martin has the right idea "it's the man, not his clothes" I've been doing conventions for 41 years and I ran them for 7 as well when I lived in Cincinnati (I also co-directed a huge convention in 1981 at the Pennsylvania in NYC).. It is what it is.. Steve Haynes and the rest of the Cinevent people have used this hotel for decades and while I will readily admit it is run down, they have been renovating the place and had the economy & the current bank situation not stopped them, they would have continued to do so. Right now they have 5 tractor trailers full of supplies sitting out back for when they can restart the renovation. One major reason for using the facility they use is cost. Another is facility. It's the only hotel in a certain price range with the ability to have a dealers room AND a movie room within that price range. If they try to move to another facility that pleases you, the cost will skyrocket and instead of paying $125 or so for tables, we'll be paying $500 and that will cut very deeply into dealers. Or they won't have a movie room and that will cut deeply into attendance (this show has many attendees that do not go to the dealers and only watch the movies) Concerning wake up calls.. I had no problem this year. My calls came right on time, and seeing as for printing I simply went to Wal Mart and bought a cheap $30 Canon printer (I needed color and to print a lot of stuff) Look.. the convention isn't held in LA, Chicago, NYC or Atlanta where there is a plethora of great hotels and from my own experience finding hotels in Cincinnati when I was living there for the comic conventions I ran, I know the problems they face trying to find another location that is affordable and has the utility they need. Besides, I'm only there for a few days and for one reason - to have fun buying & selling posters. I had a rented car so food was not a problem (I usually go elsewhere) and my room was really nice. So I had no gripes. If I eat on site, I know the food sucks. On another level.. do you remember the Roosevelt Hotel on 44th street in Manhattan?? Without question it was the worst dump of a hotel that ever existed. During teh 1970s-80s when I was still living in NYC (where I'm from) we had comic book conventions and rock n roll conventions. I remember the first time I checked in to a room there.. there was a can of roach spray behind the door when I entered the room. Compared to that place, the Ramada was a castle. That's just the way it is.. But as fasr as I'm concerned.. if Cinevent is there for another 20 years.. I'll hope to make every show. To Michael.. Yes, they had some issues with the website for bidding in the auction. John Ours (Morrie's step son) happens to also be my programmer now for MoviePosterBid (he did not design my site. I bought it that way from JR) and now that eBay Live is gone, you can expect that John will redesign a site for teh October auction that utilizes MoviePosterBid, expanding the ability to bid. We look forward to hosting Morrie's auction. We still have some final discussions, but Morrie says as long as John can interface it, we should be working together (not in those words.. he just says to talk to John and let him make the decisions. So I know we'll be doing it) The glass is half full or it is half empty.. but even a half full glass is better than no Cinevent, no auction.. and a disintegrating hobby. best Rich At 11:31 AM 5/26/2009, Franc wrote: Hey, if the dealers are happy with the sales they brought in this year and if Diane and Morrie are happy with the auction results and Sean is happy with the elevators who am I to complain? For the record I had a good time at the convention and if fact recommended it to some clients. I just detest this hotel and will rectify that next year by staying elsewhere, something with a spa as you suggested. FRANC -----Original Message----- From: MoPo List [ mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of lobby card invasion Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 1:06 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [MOPO] hollywood poster auction & DISCUSSION "I stand by my statement" AND SO DO I. Stand by MY statement, that is I can tell you that in my room the A/C worked just fine. The room did not smell. Front Desk was very cordial and helpful in numerous and various requests. The shape of the elevators is of absolutely of no consequence to most people. We came to a movie memorabelia concention, not a spa. Look, this back and forth can go on forever, with arguments and couner-arguments in both direction. You had a lousy time, I had a good time. Are there better hotels? Of course. Will rooms, dealer tables, food ets cost much more in a fancier place? Of course. So let the Cinevent organizers do their job. They've been successful at it for 40 years. Zeev ----- Original Message -----From: Franc To: 'lobby card invasion' ; [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 12:19 PM Subject: RE: [MOPO] hollywood poster auction & DISCUSSION I stand by my statement and I know for a fact that many dealers feel the same, especially since you can find luxury hotels in Columbus at that time of the year for the price that is charged at this Ramada dump. FRANC -----Original Message----- From: lobby card invasion [ mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 12:04 PM To: FRANC MARTARELLA; [email protected] Subject: Re: [MOPO] hollywood poster auction & DISCUSSION Frank, I think you're exaggerating just a little bit. I attended this year's Cinevent, and have been going to this show, at the same hotel, for almost 20 years. While this hotel may have its flaws(e.g. poor A/C in some common areas), calling it "disgusting" is grossly unfair and totally inaccurate. I have no shares in this hotel, and no personal interest in it, I just don't want people who never attended the show, and who might be contemplating on doing so in the future, be wrongly influenced by your highly subjective bad experience. No printing capacity in the "business center" (exactly 2 computer monitors) may not be as important to most guests as it is for you. Sorry. Zeev ----- Original Message ----- From: FRANC MARTARELLA To: [email protected] Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 1:22 PM Subject: Re: [MOPO] hollywood poster auction & DISCUSSION I think Collectible Shows and on-site auctions can still have the edge. I just got back from Cinevent and it's great to connect with dealers and buyers I haven't seen all year and nothing, not even a super-image zoom, can replace holding a poster or lobby cards in your hands to see the artwork, color, texture etc. Besides which it's tedious to go through all the Heritage or Bruce Hershenson listings to check condition and I lose interest one quarter of the way through. That said, I found this year's Cinevent to be a someone subdued affair. Unfortunately the economy has taken its toll on the art of collecting movie ephemera. Most of the dealers were complaining that sales were slow and I don't think Morrie going to count this one as his most financially successful auction either. Part of the problem for me is that disgusting hotel the Cinevent insist on using. Their business center had no capacity to print anything, given that their printers were all down and had been apparently for some time. The rooms either smell of disinfectant or stale cigarettes. The air- conditioner in my room was dead and had to be changed. The restaurant doesn't even look clean and wake-up calls were ignored by the front desk. The auction room was decided hot, so much so I couldn't sit in that room for more than an hour at a time and Morrie seemed to be experiencing technical problems throughout. I've made a decision to stay elsewhere ...anywhere else... next year. I only wish the Cinevent management would wise up and follow suit. FRANC From: Bruce Hershenson <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [MOPO] hollywood poster auction & DISCUSSION To: [email protected] Date: Sunday, May 24, 2009, 10:41 AM I love Morrie, and he is absolutely one of the pioneers of this hobby! Without people like Morrie and Richard Allen, who started the hobby and spent massive effort on making the world aware of it, there likely wouldn't be a hobby today! With that being said, I do think that "live auctions" are a dying breed, and large collectible shows have a similar problem. Why should people spend lots and lots of money on travel and hotels when they could spend that same money on buying posters? In the "old days", the advantage was that you could see the items "up close and personal", and that was not possible through the mail, without spending $50,000 or so on a deluxe color catalog as I did, and even then you didn't get a really good idea of what the condition was, just what the image looked like. But now, with the Internet, you CAN provide super-sized images that show every flaw in excrutiating detail (of course some auctions choose not to do so, with fuzzy scans, but that is their choice), so I really think that one giant advantage live auctions had is gone. I hope Morrie can continue to put on his auctions (to whatever extent he can), and that the hobby will support him, for as you rightly point out, Cinevent might not survive either, and it is wonderful that once a year there is a place in the middle of the country where many of the members of the hobby gather (I have attended many times, and would have been there this time, except for fate conspiring against me; Memorial Day falls super-early this year, and it started on the last day of my kid's school, and my 14 year old had perfect attendence all four years of middle school and he wasn't about to miss the very last day, and besides, he got straight As all year and got an award that last day, so I had to choose being at that over being at the auction, and it was no choice at all). Bruce On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 9:26 AM, Douglas Ball <[email protected]> wrote: Michael, Speaking from what I have seen... Morrie was extremely short of help this year. I believe this is also the first year as long as I have attended that Marty Davis wasn't involved. Anyway, Morrie tried some new things this year, some worked well, but many did not...I believe for next year there will changes...for the best! As for the catalogues, this was the first time I received a catalog for the Columbus auction, I've only receive flyers. If you were at the auction you could get a catalog free of charge. They are not the quality of Heritages auctions. Heritage has the resources and personal to put together their beautiful catalogs, pictures, and descriptions...plus from what I understand, they print their own. Morrie did this on his own, with a lot of help from his family...whom I respect. If you viewed the online catalog, you would have received a better description and picture than the catalog, plus if you really wanted to bid, many options to do so...including coming to Cinevent to be a part of the poster community as those who did. There was a time that Morrie's auction was one of the biggest and best. A lot of high end poster were there, if you were after them. Heritage and of course Bruce went to Morrie auctions, learned from them, and did their own. We need Morrie auctions, Cinevent (to survive) needs it, and we collectors and dealers need it. To bash it without giving Morrie some constructive opinions/criticisms will only help hurt our future of this business including the live auctions that are doing well at this time. Doug Ball ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael B To: [email protected] Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 9:11 AM Subject: Re: [MOPO] hollywood poster auction & DISCUSSION 1. i gave up looking at the site because it took forever to load into my computer. AND I HAVE A FAST COMPUTER. 2. more importantly, i wrote 2 emails to Hollywood Poster asking why i could not see poster descriptions. Neither were answered. How can you bid without a description??? Did their on-line sire contain descriptions? Were you able to really enhance an image? >>>>>so, although a quick search of the site found 2 posters i might have bid on.......i never went back. SO WHY DO AUCTION HOUSES LIKE HERITAGE SEND OUT FREE CATALOGUES? ANSWER: they are smart! !!! For example, in the last Signature Auction of Heritage, i made a quick search on their internet site. Although, i saw beautiful posters, i believe only one interested me at the time. Yet, after i received their catalogue, and had time to study it, i tracked about 12+ posters-----------------------and bought 6 INCLUDING the one sheet and insert of THE PICTURE OF DORIAN GRAY. clearly, i was super-pleased with the items i won, and Signature made more money because of my bidding. SO------THE AUCTION HOUSES THAT ARE SMART SEND OUT CATALOGUES TO SERIOUS BIDDERS BECAUSE THEY KNOW YOU GOTTA SPEND MONEY TO MAKE MONEY. >>>>>if the receiver of a catalogue increases a lot sold by $100, then the auction house made money to cover the catalogue and shipping cost. surely, a recipient should be removed from the free auction catalogue courtesy if they never bid. and, whenever i write to Heritage, i always get a fast answer. for example, i asked a question about the one sheet of Dorian Gray, and received a response from bruce c. within 2 hours of my question. as i said, i won that item! michael ________________________________ An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___________________________________________________________________ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [email protected] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content. Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___________________________________________________________________ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [email protected] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content. Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___________________________________________________________________ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [email protected] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content. Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___________________________________________________________________ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [email protected] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content. Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___________________________________________________________________ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [email protected] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content. Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___________________________________________________________________ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [email protected] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content. Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___________________________________________________________________ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [email protected] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content. Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___________________________________________________________________ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [email protected] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
