From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]; [email protected]
Subject: RE: [MOPO] Linen vs. regular lobby cards
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 19:01:01 -0600
Thanks for all the input on the "linen/flat Warner paper controversy". It
seems like what Bruce and Grey proport is the correct guide in collecting these
titles from that period.
We need more discussions like this on MoPo for all of us self-professed vintage
poster geeks!
Steve
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 13:14:02 -0600
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [MOPO] Linen vs. regular lobby cards
To: [email protected]
Grey has added helpful specific details to what I wrote above. The only "grey"
area here (couldn't resist) is those titles that were release at the very start
of the period, and at the very end of the period, that are on flat stock. There
is the possibility they are re-releases, or just that they were printed just
before Warners went to the linen, or right after they stopped (and as Grey
correctly points out, it started out solely on the best pictures, and appears
to have ended solely on the best pictures).
But for titles from specifically 1938, 1939, and 1940, I don't think there is
the slightest doubt that the flat cards are re-releases (until one of those
legendary pressbooks with the side-by-side flat and linen cards surfaces). And
when and if such a pressbook surfaces, don't forget to collect your $25 bonus
from me!
Bruce
On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 10:21 AM, Smith, Grey - 1367 <[email protected]> wrote:
Warners did begin the use of the linen stock in 1936, as some of the “A”
pictures were done on that stock as were many of the jumbo lobbies in that year.
http://movieposters.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=59083&Lot_No=53015
http://movieposters.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=7008&Lot_No=85066
http://movieposters.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=7014&Lot_No=89376
http://movieposters.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=58115&Lot_No=55172
By 1937 they were using the linen stock more but for mostly what they
considered “A” titles and it seemed to follow that when the cards were on the
linen stock, the insert, midget card and half, were as well. Also the jumbo
lobbies if produced.
http://movieposters.ha.com/common/view_item..php?Sale_No=633&Lot_No=28067
http://movieposters.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=7014&Lot_No=90111
http://movieposters.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=7014&Lot_No=90080
In 1938, it seems almost all of the “A” pictures and a number of the “B”s were
on linen stock and so on thru around 41-42 when they began to discontinued the
use.
http://movieposters.ha.com/common/view_item..php?Sale_No=633&Lot_No=28073
http://movieposters.ha.com/common/view_item..php?Sale_No=624&Lot_No=28894
http://movieposters.ha.com/common/view_item..php?Sale_No=667&Lot_No=28735
http://comics.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=808&Lot_No=1438
Though they did continue into 1943, briefly in the early part of the year.
http://movieposters.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=58052&Lot_No=52125
I have never much heard the speculation that the linen stock cards were for
bigger theaters and the flat for smaller. I have always been told that the flat
stock cards are early reissues of the film, using the same printing plates. I
do not believe the pressbooks bear the theory of theater size out either.
My understanding has always been that the flat stock cards were released during
the war when Warner Brothers output of films diminished significantly due to
the war effort. As I understand there were great restraints put on the studios
as to how much new material could be used, i.e.; lumber for sets, film stock,
etc.
The reason so very few inserts, half sheets and Jumbo lobbies from these films
exist today, from some the great Warner Brothers titles is two-fold. The paper
from that period is exceedingly rare due to the later war paper drives, but
also most significantly, due to the fragile nature of the paper stock. The
linen paper is infamous for tanning and becoming brittle if not stored in a
stable environment. When folded, the inserts and halves almost always began to
separate.
From: MoPo List [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
[email protected]
Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 5:10 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [MOPO] Linen vs. regular lobby cards
Warner Brothers linen lobby paper stock (I believe used by Warners between
1937 and 1942--the last title I'm aware of being Yankee Doodle Dandy)--is very
tricky because as soon as you think you have it all figured out--you're thrown
a curve ball. Usually, as in the case of Angels With Dirty Faces, the original
lobby cards, inserts and 1/2 sheets are on linen paper--(I have an original
insert on that title, on linen paper)--the lobby cards released presumably the
next year are on flat paper. That's the case with probably 95% of the Warner
Brothers titles from that era. I've had beautiful lobby cards of Angels With
Dirty Faces--a set of Robin Hood lobby cards--all on flat paper--and at the
time they never commanded the attention dollar-wise that lobby cards on linen
paper would. Probably half as much...or even less.
The odd thing is that I believe there are a few Warner Brothers titles (not
many) that break all of the linen paper rules completely---their original lobby
cards were printed on FLAT paper and the lobby cards released a few months or a
year later were subsequently printed on LINEN paper. A collector-friend of
mine out of Northern California (who has one of the most incredible collections
ever assembled, but prefers his anonymity and privacy) is as far as I'm
concerned the foremost expert on Warner Brothers paper from that era. He's the
one who provided me with whatever knowledge I might have (which has
unfortunately never reached his level of expertise). But even as an "expert"
in the area of Warner Brothers paper from that era, he'd be the first one to
say that as soon as you think you have everything figured out, a certain Warner
Brothers title will surface that breaks all of the rules completely. He knew
(knows) more about vintage movie posters than anyone I've ever met (or will
probably ever meet) but he never became arrogant or cocky----because he
realized there are curve balls everywhere when it comes to movie posters of the
20's, 30's and 40's---especially when you're dealing with lobby cards + posters
from Warner Brothers--- (the only studio that used "linen" paper in the first
place).
Rick
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