Re: [MOPO] mpgrading

[Todd Spoor]

Wow, where to begin... I guess I will have to address each line although I will not bore the group with items I have already addressed in previous posts. 1. It is a "goal," plain and simple. I have no idea what percentage we will eventually grade and tag in the years to come, hopefully enough so that a census or registry becomes significant so that new people coming into the hobby will find it relevant.  2. The DNA is organic, hence the term, Deoxyribonucleic acid: here is the definition for anyone who fell asleep in Biology class. (DNA) is a nucleic acid that contains the genetic instructions used in the development and functioning of all known living organisms. This is the corner stone of what we are doing. Our invisible ink stain contains organic DNA, the 9 digit number (laced with DNA) is OUR reference code so that we can track every poster that comes through and it isn't confused with 50 posters of the same title, Example; 900000001, 900000002 and so on. 3. The DNA can be  read and tested to make sure it is the DNA that has been licensed to our company. We are partnered with the same DNA company that has been used by the Olympics, NFL, Hockey Hall of Fame and many leading Sports Memorabilia Authenticating Companies. 4. Described above. We are referring to GENETIC DNA 5. There is no cost to the customer to check one of our DNA laced items for the first 5 items in question. We do not lace every panel of a 24 sheet. Thanks for pointing that out, we need to add that to the website, We are NOT currently offering 24 sheets in our service. Any poster we grade and Authenticate can referenced by the 9 digit invisible ink stain. 6. yes, it can be sent to us to be re-authenticated or it can be brought to one of our Authorized dealers who will have a High Frequency UV light reader. Or the poster can be compared to the high resolution 21 megapixel picture on our website which will be the easiest to use as a visual marker. 7. EVERY movie poster grader from Heritage to Bruce to Christies, the grades are only good while on the premises since NO ONE wants to encapsulate a poster. This system at least represents a better visual marker with the High Res image and the Grading Flaw scale that can be used a reference. As posted before... 8. It is odd... Size doesn't matter, the number of people looking at the poster is the extra charge. Not that odd actually. 1 grader/authenticator cost X amount in salary. 3 graders/authenticators cost 3 times more. (Adrian, that line is for you.) $75 for 3 leading people in the Industry to spend their time looking at poster is incredibly cheap in my estimation. Which is why CGC charges $1,500. John Davis of Poster Mountain charges $150 for his Authentication service and he is leaving a very VISIBLE mark on the back of the poster. 9. No 10. All poster are stored as one Image. 11. Thanks for pointing out the typo. You had a typo in line 4. "referring has two  (r's) not one" 12. We are NOT charging for membership to view images. 13. No the Authenticator's name is not listed for the public. It is internal when they log into the system we can see who has looked at what poster. If this is something the public deems important, we will look into it. Is it important to you? 14. Dealers can order the hand held UV indicator so that posters of the same title are NOT confused, again a secondary check can be the High Res image. Certificates are passed on from the dealer to the customer. Certificate contains the DNA stain as well. 15. The fiber sample is not for the customer. The fiber sample is used to test the paper. If you really want the fiber sample, we can send it back to you. 16. The DNA invisible ink stain will NOT leave a mark over time. It has been tested out to 15 years so far. Will the Great Pyramid ever crumble into dust? Who knows, but I'm sure people will have an opinion on this, Adrian??? 17. Yes it is permanent, but it is INVISIBLE to the human eye!!!!! Are you HAPPY there are microscopic germs in you mouth right now? Do they bother you? 18. Please read the website. They are Graders and Authenticators. 19. Are you interested in a job? I fail to see why this has any importance unless you are with the IRS or Immigration. 20. Good question, the value is based off the Fair Market Value. We run an average off of Heritage and eMoviePoster. Are we going to quibble over whether the item's value is $500 or $501, the answer is no. We will defer to the lower value. We are not here to screw old Mr. Retiree out of his $10-$75 so he can get his poster evaluated by us. 21. Not to be taken literally, a novice is NOT grading the poster, which is why we have Industry Experts doing it who have spent more time around valuable movie poster than almost anyone on the planet. 22. yes, border damage and image area damage have different weights assigned to them. Half way there, I will continue later with the rest of the answers when I have another 2 hours to devote. Two question answered out of order. 32. Todd Feiertag was NOT involved in the grading of his own poster. There was a room full of people that can attest to this. 33. We will be launching the site officially to the general public along with search features Nov 1st. 34. Yes, we plan on closing our doors as soon as the Frankenstien is sold. (this is a joke) I just love sinking my (and my wife's and 2 children's) live savings into this technology so that Todd Feiertag can sell HIS poster. By the way, some of my answers were for pure amusement ( I know this is boring some people to death) and in no way are attacks on Steve or Adrian's friendly round of questioning. Just my dry sense of humor. I have thick skin or I wouldn't have placed my neck on the MOPO chopping block. :) I will try to make our website MORE clear so that these questions are answered. Without this forum what would Steve have to do with his day in order to ask 37 questions!!! Nice job Steve, also, remind me to talk to you FIRST if I ever start another business! Warm Regards, Todd Spoor -----Original Message----- From: Steve E Sent: Oct 12, 2010 4:38 AM To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU, sp...@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [MOPO] mpgrading Hello Todd, A few questions/comments I have (extracted from my posts in All Poster Forum): 1.) "MPgrading.com was established to authenticate, grade, register and fingerprint every known poster whether being sold at auction or held in a private collection. " This reason for establishing mpgrading is likely not achievable is it? Thus the database being a good guide advising how many known copies there are will not really be particularily useful. Do you think mpgrading.com will really authenticate more than 1% of all posters in existence? 2.) The 'DNA' is not organic genetic DNA. The DNA is actually a very small object with a nine digit code written on it, something like a microdot. 3.) Can the DNA numbers be read under a high powered microscope? 4.) I believe describing the DNA in these terms is misleading: DNA, DNA sequence - most people would think you were refering to genetic DNA 5.) The website does not mention a DNA verification service to authenticate the poster's DNA. Do you offer this service and how much is it? Does it cost the same to read the DNA on every panel of my 24 sheet as my daybill? DNA verification is fundamental to match the poster with the history in the database, since the tag with the id number on it is not attached to most posters (eg 1,3,6 sheets) but attached to the grading sheet. If I cant authenticate the poster, what use is the service? 6.) If I can authenticate the DNA, will it be practical to do so? Can I authenticate it prior to purchasing on ebay or a bricks and mortar dealer? Not likely as I would need to pick it up and take it to the company. If I authenticate it after the sale will the seller refund me if it is not correct? Yes the dealer must, but in reality...? 7.) As mentioned by others, the grading is only accurate at the time of grading, not a minute later or more. Thus the grading system is only useful as a historical record/log book if you will, of the posters condition. 8.) My $39 24 sheet costs the same to authenticate, grade, tag and DNA as my $39 daybill. Odd? 9.) Does my 24-sheet get DNA on all the sheets or just on one sheet? 10.) Do you store my 24 sheet as one photo in the database or as multiple photos? 11.) You offer 1 in 33 trillion accuracy but you have a page on the website titled 'Registeration'. Typos on other pages. 12.) When I get my poster authenticated, a high resolution image of my poster is available to any paid member. Can I opt to have this image not available for public viewing? What image size is the image available to the public - 21 megapixels? 13.) Will my grading certificate list the authenticators name? 14.) Will a dealer for example be expected to not only stock/manage the poster but also both the Grading Document and Certificate of Authenticity (which has the tag attached)? How will the dealer not muddle up the certificates between multiple copies of the same poster they have as there is no identifier on the poster to cross reference except invisible stain? (paper posters not card stock posters with the tag on back). 2 days ago I received a poster from a dealer which was completely different poster to what I ordered. What hope is there with the certificates? 15.) "A random microscopic fiber sampling from both the front and back of the poster or lobby card can be done at the customers request for $30." What will I do with this particle - what is it good for? How do you ensure it is a random fibre (a computer program will assist with hundreds of hours of testing?) 16.) Will the DNA stain leave a mark over time? - How long did the test last? 17.) Is the DNA stain permanent? It needs to be or else the whole concept falls apart. The DNA is key to tracking a poster over its life and providing a count of the rarity of such posters in the database. So if it is permanent, are people happy about this. Say the mpgrading system turns out to be flawed, the stain is still permanently there. 18.) You mentioned "I have been working on this technology for the last year and half with the help of Rob Borst, Todd Feiertag and most recently Dan Strebin". Will these people play any further role in the business and what role will they have? Are they the 3 authenticators? 19.) The website states the team comprises an IT person, a photographer and an admin person. Are there no other people in the team? 20.) The sites says authentication charge is based on the value of the poster. How is this value determined? Do I tell you what I paid for it? Do I send you images in advance for you to determine the value for you then to provide a quote? Do you first grade it, look up price guides and then advise me what what I have to pay afterwards? 21.) Website quote: "Now, through the patent pending computer grading system, no matter who  grades a poster, whether they are an expert or a complete novice, if they can count and measure, the grade will always be the same." How can a novice identify restoration such as respraying and paper replacement? It can smack a novice in the face and they couldn't spot it. A novice can't grade a poster accurately by just using count and measure. 22.) Does the grading process distinguish between damage to the border area and damage within the image area? 23.) There is no purpose for the patent pending micro chipped tag, only to sound fancy. Website: "This microchip contains all of the pertinent information about that poster and can only be read by our handheld scanner." If it can only be read by the company scanner and the company already has the information in the database, what is the point of reading it. The scanner only needs to read the id number on the tag to identify it. 24.) If the tag is tamperproof, why does the tag need to have DNA on it? Being tamperproof, the id number on the tag is tamperproof. 25.) In what circumstance would this statement come in handy? : website:"This DNA sequence is so secure it is admissible in a court of law. ". Organic DNA found at a crime scene might implicate someone, but how would it in this case? 26.) From the website: "The invisible ink code is used on the tag AND in a secret location on the poster." Tou stated it is located in the bottom corner and in the border and can be seen using uv light. That is not so secret?! 27.) The DNA can be easily obscured. So say the DNA is small and we know it is in the border and it can be seen under uv light, then this piece of the border can be removed or covered. That would be a small price to pay for someone with reasons to get around the system. Spray/paint over the DNA to cover it. Possibly even a transparent paint/coating over the DNA may prevent the reader reading it. 28.) The rigours of the linen backing process will remove the DNA? If so, the poster loses its history. You may still have the certificate but no DNA on the poster to confirm it against. 29.) Can the DNA be removed? if so, the DNA could be transferred to another poster, say using a cotton bud and a solvent. 30.) What kind of testing has been done to ensure not one solvent can remove some DNA? The website does not mention the DNA stain's durability or permanancy or guarantee it. 31.) Database corruption. Say you have a one of a kind poster, get it autheticated and stained. Remove the DNA eg by respraying part of the border in all innocence to remove a flaw (say, a DNA stain that is now discoloring for example, then it gets sold, the new buyer authenticates it. There are now 2 posters in existance indicated by the database when in fact there is only one. You would also get 2 posters in the database if the poster gets linen backed washing of the stain between authentications 32.) Conflict of interest - Todd Freiertag being involved in the authentication of his Frankenstein poster up for sale? 33.) How can one authenticate the grading of the Frankenstein poster on Heritage? Or any poster graded by mpgrading.com? There is no photo of the tag or ID number to look up the mpgrading database. There is in fact currently no database to lookup on mpgrading.com. 34.) Is the timing of the Frankenstein poster auction and launch of the company related? Is this company setup to add additional credibility to auction? Will the company be around after there are no more posters left to be sold by stakeholders in the company? <Cynical me> 35.) Where are images of the tag for us to see? I have doubts one exists because where is one? 36.) Your comments: "This tag CANNOT be removed from the poster with out it going blank, therefore it CANNOT be placed on a fake". I would like to know how this technically happens. Is part of the tag permanently attached to the poster and when the tag removed the connection is broken? Maybe glue related - has the glue some special properties for this functionality which may harm the poster ie it wouldnt just be acid free wheat paste. 37.) Apart from the microchip serving no purpose, "the microchip tag that CAN NOT be decoded". How are you so sure it cant be decoded. Your machine can decode it. Thats all the questions I have at the moment, Cheers, Steve Enders --- On Tue, 12/10/10, Todd A. Spoor <sp...@earthlink.net> wrote: From: Todd A. Spoor <sp...@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [MOPO] mpgrading To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU Date: Tuesday, 12 October, 2010, 3:35 Actually the grade is transferrable unless the poster is damaged in the future. The visual image (21 megapixel picture) and the grading system that records each flaw is the record. All anyone has to do is look at the poster in hand and compare it to the image on our site to see if any new damage has occured, if not the grade should stand. Once it again it is BETTER than what is currently available. And Sean, I wasn't saying that dealers by from Heritage to switch for lesser grade posters, just making a hypothetical point that I was hoping most people would not take literally... The point was, there is NO WAY to track a poster. This sytems allows us to do so. Todd Spoor Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® From: Dale Dilts <ddilts...@mchsi.com> Sender: MoPo List <mopo-l@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 21:09:22 -0500 To: <MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU> ReplyTo: Dale Dilts <ddilts...@mchsi.com> Subject: Re: [MOPO] mpgrading This is exactly my issue with this whole concept. The grade is only good until the item is moved from the place it was graded at. The authentication side makes sense, and the record keeping of how many in existence is fine, but without encapsulation, there is no way to guarantee the grade holds beyond the point in time it was looked at. This would be great for auction houses doing signature type auctions, but really I don't see the long term benefit of this service as the grade is not transferable with a sale or change of ownership unless it is a hand to hand transaction.             From: MoPo List [mailto:mop...@listserv.american.edu] On Behalf Of Todd Spoor Sent: Monday, October 11, 2010 5:42 PM To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU Subject: Re: [MOPO] mpgrading Sean is also correct in respect to grading, however since there is no way to encapsulate (nor would anyone want this) a poster, which is why we take such a high grade picture of the poster and make it available on our website. The picture acts as a VISUAL RECORD to a prospective buyer of it's condition when it was graded and how it looks at the time of the sale even if it has changed hands 10 times. Right now if you buy a poster from ANY auction site, or dealer for that matter, the grade is only good while it is on the PREMISES. Obviously if it is damaged in transit or torn while opening the package the grade is not longer worth anything. (It is funny that this issue never seems to be thought of when people buy posters under the current system.) Which is another reason why we  will always re-grade a poster for half the original price if the current grade comes into question. The last thing to insure against (or at least address) that the grade is consistent and the poster hasn't been damaged once it has left our site, is our grading system. For instance if a poster has a 1" tear this has been noted in our computer application, if we see this poster again and it is now a 2" tear it would be noted and the grade would be adjusted if it does indeed change. Once again, EVERY SINGLE DEFECT is noted  in our Grading Application.  And we can be also called on the phone and will be happy to discuss the flaws we have on record with a potential customer so that he can check it against what is front of him if the poster isn't sent back to us. So Sean, from this prospective, the grade is as close to being INSURED as possible and I hope you would agree it is surely at least a step better then what is currently available. Hope this helps explain what we are doing. I enjoy the questions and all the positive emails, public and private. Regards Todd Spoor -----Original Message----- From: Sean Linkenback Sent: Oct 11, 2010 2:48 PM To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU Subject: Re: [MOPO] mpgrading Adrian, most of the grading services will say that the increased fee for the more expensive item is to handle the increased insurance costs when keeping an item of extraordinary value at their facilities.   My question regarding a Frankenstein one-sheet that the chap in your example has - what is the point in grading a Frankenstein one-sheet?  Is this an item that the six collectors who own one are looking to upgrade if they get a chance, or is there a potential buyer who might be eyeing one but says "ohhhh, your Frankenstein one-sheet is only in 7.0 condition?  Sorry old boy, if it was a 7.5 I'd be a buyer for sure, but I just can't allow one in that condition into my collection so I'll hold out for a nicer one."   I like the concept of authenticating, but grading without some measure to insure the grade is nearly worthless (in my initial thoughts, I will reserve the right to change my mind).  This is why stamps, coins, cards, comics, etc get encapsulated so that there is some degree of preservation of the item in the condition it was graded. If I bring a graded poster to Cinevent, and then you, me, and a couple of other people look at it - there is a good chance that it already is in a different grade than what the certificate/tag says.  Or there would be enough doubt that you wouldn't care what grade the certificate says since there is no standard of care/preservation applied to the item since grading.   Sean   ----- Original Message ----- From: jboh...@aol.com To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU Sent: Monday, October 11, 2010 4:53 AM Subject: [MOPO] mpgrading Whilst I can recognise the value of a grading system and company I am not convinced this is a good thing. A/ why the price difference on grading posters? Surely a a Dark Knight one sheet is as big as a Frankenstein One Sheet, why the differnce in cost? Shouldn't all posters be charged the same and not a sliding scale. B/ Also you get one expert grading for a certain price...surely my grading is different to a whole number of poster dealers. Also a recognised body like one of the big auction houses may grade differently to how I grade or MP grade. In fact there are many of us who have looked at certain auctions and decried the high grades. The item is sold to an unsuspecting buyer and he believes he has a grade A item because that auction house says he has. However there are many of us that say no it's not grade A. It's our word against the auction house. I understand that if the poster is graded by a recognised authority and that is mentioned in the description then that is a good indicator but then the question is "should every poster be graded before auction?" If I have a rolled Dr.No Quad and do not get it graded does that diminish the value of the poster? Does invisible ink become the same as normal ink and is it then a poster marred by graffiti? C/ Many auction houses regard a linen backed poster with some restoration as grade A, near mint, excellent, fine. If it isn't graded does this lessent the integrity of the poster. I am playing devils advocate, I think a grading system is flawed, however a registration system I think is a good idea. However I am certain that six years ago if any one of the experts out there had been offerd the House of Frankenstein three sheet that was on display in Columbus yhis year would have snapped it up and not realised it was fake. I think there are chinks in this system and it isn't completely secure. I do hope it all runs smoothly but I don't like the idea that if a poster is worth more than another then the owner is being charged more to grade it. If a collector of little wealth picked up a Frankenstein one sheet forty years ago and is now retired on a low income with little financial resources he gets charged more than the chap who has just purchased a Thor advance one sheet. Surely it doesn't take any more work for one or the other. Adrian Hello MOPO,  >  >I wanted to introduce a new Authentication and Grading Service to all of MOPO since you will be seeing it in some of the Heritage listings. You can view the website at www.mpgrading.com  >  >I have been working on this technology for the last year and half with the help of Rob Borst, Todd Feiertag and most recently Dan Strebin.  >  >There are 4 things we are doing that are truly unique, 3 of which are Patent Pending. I believe all of them will help the movie poster collecting hobby tremendously. Please read on or go to the website.  >  >1. One of my initial reasons for creating this service (before the Universal Horror scandal hit) was the frustration of not knowing how many posters there are for any given title. I know this is impossible to accurately gage since there will always be new finds of posters and posters hidden in the archives of some collectors, but it would be nice to have as accurate a number as possible. Until now, there has been no way to fingerprint a poster. We have created a 9 digit DNA invisible ink stain that is placed on the bottom corner of the poster. The DNA is registered to our company and the chances of it being reproduced is 1 in 33 trillion. The DNA is so secure it is also admissible in court. Now, EACH poster has a fingerprint and can be tracked as it moves from auction to collector and back to auction. (Isn't everyone curious to really know how many posters of their favorite title are really out there... I am!!!)  >  >2. Encrypted Patented Microchip: All of the poster's information is housed in a tiny encrypted microchip that is recorded in a 1"x 3" ACID FREE tag. This tag is attached to the BACK of card stock posters, i.e. lobby cards, inserts, half sheets, 30x40's 40x60's, etc. without having to SLAB them. This tag CANNOT be removed from the poster with out it going blank, therefore it CANNOT be placed on a fake. The tag is also laced with our DNA 9 digit number which MUST MATCH the DNA stain on the front of the poster. For paper stock posters, i.e. 1 sheets, 3 sheets, 6 sheets, we are only putting the DNA ink stain on the front of the poster. The Encrypted microchip tag is placed on a Certificate of Authenticity that accompanies the poster with a MATCHING DNA ink stain that corresponds to the poster.  >  >3. Patented Grading System: I think everyone would agree that if we sent a poster to 10 different dealers or auction houses we would probably get 5 to 6 DIFFERENT grades! I have heard almost everyone complain that if you send an item to a "Grading Company" then send the SAME item back 6 months later, you will probably get a different grade. This will never happen again with this system. I worked very closely with a Computer Programming Development team to devise a computer generated grading program, called MP GradePRO. Over 1000 hours went into the testing of this program to insure that no matter WHO grades a poster, it will be done without bias. The program assigns weights to every flaw therefore reducing the grade of the poster as more flaws are recorded. For example, all the grader has to do is measure each tear, whether it is in the border or into the image, count how many of each size tear there are and then enter that info into the grading system. The program then calc!  > ulates the grade. It's that simple, in other words, NO MORE SUBJECTIVITY!!! To show you how accurate this is, Ron Borst, Todd Feieretag and myself all graded a poster independently of each other. We then had a complete novice who had never handled an original movie poster before in her life grade the same poster that we did. The grade came out the same!!! Wouldn't it be great to know that your poster's grade didn't go up or down based on if the grader is having a bad day???  >  >4. 21 megapixel image complete with color index chart: Our 4th level of security is to take the highest resolution image available that is uncorrected color-wise. The color chart is kept next to the image so that if the poster comes back to us, it can be compared for reference to make sure that fading has not occurred. The picture is also a road map to show every detail and flaw so that if the poster is ever re-graded, it can be matched to the original image to insure authenticity and record any new flaws.  >  >  >It is my hope that most of you will see this is NOT an attempt to bring another money making grading system to the hobby. What we are trying to do is BRING NEW PEOPLE into a hobby that we all love and want to see prosper. What we are giving people is a way to feel secure by:  >A. Knowing what they are buying is real.  >B. That it is graded in an unbiased and accurate manner.  >C. Can be tracked and will eventually know how many of a particular title are out there.  >D. Poster or lobby Card can still be displayed without encapsulating or slabbing the item.  >  >I welcome comments, as I know there will be many!!!  >Regards,  >Todd Spoor and the MPgrading Team. Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___________________________________________________________________ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content. Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___________________________________________________________________ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content. Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___________________________________________________________________ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content. Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___________________________________________________________________ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content. Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___________________________________________________________________ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.