I agree with you David. I think they have always tried to make the posters look as presentable as possible and that has not included showing the linen border. It may have started when many auction houses issued glossy catalogues but catalogues are not so commonly used now. I have many catalogues from auctions over the years and looking at one froma UK auction from 1998, there are many linen backed posters shown in the catalogue but none show the linen border.
I think it just evolved over the years into an accepted practice for the photographers to crop the photo and not show the linen border and it happens routinely today. My humble opinion is that it would be better to show the entire poster. Looking through Bruce’s auctions, he has always shown the entire poster so that you can see how much border has been left and whether there are any defects eg fraying, etc. That gives the buyer a much better indication of condition. Regards John From: MoPo List <[email protected]> On Behalf Of David Kusumoto Sent: 2 November, 2024 11:15 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [MOPO] Linen backed posters at Auction houses When Sue was based in LA County I'd walk into her shop and she'd sometimes trim the linen for me right there on the premises along with building the frames while we both jabbered away about everything. I miss those days. At any rate, I noticed that no one has directly answered John's question about why some houses choose to not show the backed borders of linen or paperbacked items. My opinion - (not factual) is this. I think the houses do this for their catalogues to make them "prettier" - and - they use those same minty images online. The skeptic in me thinks it's a deceptive practice to hide borders - because border / edge wear are 100% among the critical things collectors inspect while assessing paper condition - backed or not. I'm inclined to think some of these houses probably treat posters like paintings, that is, without frames - or - in the case of posters, without the linen or paper to make them appear pristine and more attractive. I mean, just look at published catalogues from some of the big houses in NY and London, e.g., nearly every lot of drawn art - looks "mint" and saturated - despite defects which may or may not be listed within the text description written beneath it. I recall nightmares with some of the houses back in the day which forced you to attend previews in person. Some of the abominations include "folded on linen," whereby the linen is actually creased and handled roughly - yet the lot is presented as looking minty great in a catalogue. -d. ________________________________ From: MoPo List <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> on behalf of Susan Heim <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sent: Friday, November 1, 2024 5:32 PM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: Re: Linen backed posters at Auction houses Hello all, I wanted to weigh in on this topic. Since I do a vast amount of custom framing, not only for the studios and academies, but thousands of customers over the years. A lot of collectors don't want to see the excess linen as they want it to look like it did hanging in the marquis window. Once it's trimmed properly (I trim with a straight edge and a very sharp one sided razor blade) and in the frame, no more fraying can happen.....when I do trim down the linen, I leave about 1/4" more so for handling purposes...that way the frame lip covers most of, if not all of that, and you don't see the excess linen in the final framed product.....I do have many customers that do leave the linen and sometimes that has to be trimmed to make it even all the way around. I've gotten linenbacked posters that had 2" of excess on one side and 1/2" on the other. Now, for the most part, today's linenbackers leave a pretty much even amount all the way around....If you aren't framing your item and just storing it in a flat file or even a tube, I wouldn't suggest trimming down the excess linen in that case, only at the point that it is being framed. Of course, if you are matting the poster, you can leave the excess linen as it would be underneath the mat.....that's the scoop from here. Sue Hollywood Poster Frames HollywoodPosters.com ________________________________ From: MoPo List <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> on behalf of Moviemem Original Movie Posters <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sent: Friday, November 1, 2024 3:53 PM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: Re: [MOPO] Linen backed posters at Auction houses Hi David Thanks for your response. The vast majority of my customers prefer to have a margin of linen rather than have it trimmed to the edge of the poster but the main reason for my question was to try and understand why some major auction houses (not Bruce) do not show the entire image of the poster including the linen border. By cropping the image they are not showing the complete poster and I find that strange. I think that collectors would like to know if a margin of linen has been left and also whether there are any issues with the linen edges, etc. Regards John From: MoPo List <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> On Behalf Of David Kusumoto Sent: 31 October, 2024 6:59 PM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: Re: [MOPO] Linen backed posters at Auction houses For me, trimming a linen poster to the edge - makes it more vulnerable to edge dings and corresponding damage to the original vintage paper being backed in the first place. Framing becomes a little more complicated with excess 1/2 to 1 inch linen border but to me that's always preferable than linen trimmed to the edge. I remember owning a lot of Hitchcock inserts and one-sheets which EXPANDED from their original dimensions - after I had them backed. I'd send those dimensions to Sue Heim and she'd custom cut the frames for me. Dimensions of backed inventory online or at auctions - generally mention their original size as issued before backing - and not actual present-day dimensions with linen or paper. Hence I always waited for their arrival before ordering frames. I suppose it would be a "convenience" to know those dimensions with linen but that's another topic. While trimming to the edge is not a defect to some, if I see it, I won't buy it unless it's something I must have that doesn't come up often. -d. ________________________________ From: MoPo List <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> on behalf of Helmut Hamm <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2024 12:42 AM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: Aw: Re: [MOPO] Linen backed posters at Auction houses John, don't ask me why they are doing this, but this is one reason I hardly ever buy linenbacked posters online. I NEVER buy any linenbacked posters on ebay anymore. The few occasions I did, more often than not, what I received was nothing short of HORRYFING. These days, the dedicated auction houses usually list any serious defects. Fortunately, the days when both Christies and Sothebys would list anymore that 'looks ok if you don't look too close' as Condition A- are over. Most auction houses offer a detailed description these days, but mistakes happen. Ages ago, I bought a poster from Heritage that was described as VF+ and 'best copy we've ever seen' or something. When the poster arrived, it had the entire white borders airbrushed. I'm sure there was no bad intention, somebody simply made a mistake. This was for a client, and he was happy, so I let it slide. Re. Linen border: As long as there is still a linen margin left, say a quarter inch or so, I don't see that it makes a difference. That said, I do not like it either when there's no linen border left and I agree, it lowers the value. Foxing on the linen border certainly is a defect and should be noted. I recently bought a linenbacked poster from a private seller that has a lot of foxing on the backside only. The front is perfectly fine. In my book, this does not lower the value of the poster, but when I put it on the website I will of course mention this in my description and also publish a photo of the backside. Helmut www.filmposter.net<http://www.filmposter.net/> John Gesendet: Donnerstag, 31. Oktober 2024 um 03:28 Uhr Von: "Moviemem Original Movie Posters" <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> An: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Betreff: Re: [MOPO] Linen backed posters at Auction houses Hi Alan My preference has always been to have at least one inch of linen as a border. The linen often frays on the edges over time and that is not good if the linen has been trimmed to the border of the poster. The majority of linen backers will routinely leave a margin unless the customer specifically asks for it to be trimmed to the border so I think that speaks volumes. Regards John From: Alan Heimann <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sent: 31 October, 2024 11:48 AM To: Moviemem Original Movie Posters <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Cc: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: Re: [MOPO] Linen backed posters at Auction houses Just curious John..why do you think if the linen is trimmed to the poster border it’s worth less?..Alan On Wed, Oct 30, 2024 at 6:40 PM Moviemem Original Movie Posters <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Hi to you all I recently purchased a linen backed daybill from one of the big auction houses (doesn’t matter who it is). It was described as very fine on linen but the photo had been cropped to only show the actual poster and not the linen. When it arrived it was pretty badly frayed on the edges and the linen border had some foxing spots / stains and pinholes in the linen. I think collectors need to know whether there are any issues with the linen and how much of the linen has been left around the poster. I’m sure you have all seen where some linen backed posters have been trimmed to the edge of the poster and this detracts from the value as far as I am concerned. I looked through the auction history and was surprised to see hundreds of linen backed posters that have been sold where the photos have been cropped so that you cant see the linen borders. That makes it guesswork for the buyer. Just curious as to what you all think about this. Should auction houses show the entire poster including the linen borders? Why would they crop the images so that you cant see the linen borders? Regards John ________________________________ To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-L&A=1 Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___________________________________________________________________ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [email protected] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
