*"How in the world does the TAO relate to the MOQ? That patterns (inorganic, biological, social & intellectual) are what they are! Are they evolving and interrelated (conditional) patterns? Yes? But beyond that, what is to be done? What does the MOQ suggest an individual do? SA's poetry seems the best thread of actual purpose on the forum. And there are many other random patterns of interest."* ** SA is really a grand poet, I have to admit. I spend time staring at the screen trying to figure out what SA is trying to say, and after some time things finally get sorted out to context.
An individual needs to progress along the sq continuum. Actually, now since it's the Kali Yuga (the worst of Man's Ages -- corresponding to the Greek gold/silver/bronze/iron division) it might be difficult for us to know whether there are indeed levels beyond the intellectual sqp. The spiritual level seems to be a candidate, but the more I think about it I realise it's not a level at all, it's pure DQ. Did Pirsig mean that DQ is the "container" within which the SQP develop? Or did he make a sharp division between pure experience, such that at any given time either you're experiencing DQ or some SQP? As far as Vedanta informs us, I think the former should be true. On your question relating to whether intellectual patterns are or can be defined: Alan Turing wanted to do the exact thing -- to know the Law behind all the laws. The famous line of the Upanisads comes to mind: "know that by knowing which everything else becomes known". Perhaps the Turing Machine and other Automata theories are in that direction, but certainly Godel's theorem does tell us that we can only go so far as to have a small-isomorphic idea of what the Laws of Thought are. Akshay On 16/11/2007, Akshay Peshwe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Great thought! In fact, now as I explore the roots of major religions > (Christianity in particular), I understand that all religions are > fundamentally one. The true message of Jesus Christ was far different from > the way it is interpreted today in churches around the world. However, one > has to be patient and frank and develop a sense of prudence (as opposed to > blind skepticism) to discover what one's religion really is. > > >The intellect is inherently dualistic. It makes distinctions and > >creates new connections between concepts and calls that > >"meaning." This type of analytical thinking is extremely limited in > >the face of Tao, which is not fully rational, nor fully quantitative, > >not fully describable.' > > Great intellectuals of today do acknowledge that, this awareness being the > result of the intellect finding its own limits (Godel et al). However, I > feel that this is only, after all, an intellectual awareness, at least in > the case of people like me. And so, to really understand what this means is > only to be realised via direct experience (and here the guru plays an > important part). > > > Akshay > > On 15/11/2007, MarshaV <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > Greetings, > > > > Scholars, drunk on words and obscure meanings, > > Weave a tangled web of concordances. > > Simple practice never occurs to them. > > Give up education, and the world will be better. > > > > > > There are many who seek Tao through intellect. They revel in > > thousands of coincidences, seek similarities in all the world's > > religions, conduct learned discourses for enthralled audiences. But > > they would reach the truth faster if they tied their thoughts to > > experience. > > > > The intellect is inherently dualistic. It makes distinctions and > > creates new connections between concepts and calls that > > "meaning." This type of analytical thinking is extremely limited in > > the face of Tao, which is not fully rational, nor fully quantitative, > > not fully describable. Though most followers of Tao are learned, > > they also realize that the intellect is but one aspect in what must > > be a multifaceted approach to Tao. > > > > It is said one must give up education, not because we should be dumb, > > but because we must seek a level on consciousness beyond the > > intellect. We must study, but not to the point that emphasis on > > experience and meditation is lost. If we can combine the intellect > > and direct experience with out meditative mid, then there will be no > > barrier to the wordless perception of reality. > > > > > > > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > > Archives: > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
