And wasn't this a very nice demonstration of discourse as Intellectual?
At 03:49 PM 12/15/2007, you wrote: > > The question "Music as intellectual ?" may > perhaps be discussed through an exploration > of what may be called, provisionally, "the > music experience" (a shorthand of "music as > experience", which is too long). I write > "provisionally" because I am not entirely > certain of its being a distinct type > of experience as ,say, the aesthetic > experience is accepted to be. If I may be > allowed to use for a while the notion of a > distinct 'music experience' as a working > hypothesis; then I could proceed to explore the > various components of such experience (components, not parts). > > The preceding posts here provide a good > insight about the possible components. First > and foremost the aesthetic experience, as > emphasized in previous posts: Although few may > disagree, there is an overall consensus about > considering aesthetic experiences as > intellectual; hence a positive answer to "Music > as Intellectual?". However you might agree that > to consider a music experience as solely > aesthetic is to severely limit it, leaving out > experiences connected with the so-called > 'banal' music. There is far more to our > experiencing of a certain piece of music than > its aesthetic value. A piece of music may have > a profound emotional effect on some of us > because of associations with childhood memories > (i.e. lullabies), or associations with a dear > one, or of our complex identification with a > group or nation (as in dmb's example of "God > Save the Queen") or cause (like in protest and > revolutionary songs). The list is long and also > heterogeneous; but if we were to include them > into a set (which I don't intend to) the only > common property would be "non-aesthetic > experiences". For lack of a better name I'd > call them 'musical experiences involving strong > positive affect'. As to how these fit into the > "Music as intellectual?" question, it depends > on whether we think of emotions as > 'intellectual' or notÂ… a question that I studiedly try to avoid. > > Yet another group of experiences may be > envisaged which have in common that they entail > body movements as reactions to the music (see also dmb's post). >Surely our ancestors, as far back as the >Cro-Magnons, had intense music experiences, long >before the Greeks ever pondered about >aesthetics. Music and dance were later separated >at some stage of our History, but experiencing a >certain piece of music resulting on more or less >gracious movements of our body continues strong, >up to our very days (what R. Jourdain calls >muscular representation). At one end of the >spectrum we have, in our culture, what we see in >discotheques, people absorbed in the music and >moving with the beat or rhythm ( clearly also a >non-aesthetic experience) at the other end the >body twitching and hand movements that some of >us find hard to repress in concert halls, when carried away by the music. > > I have not set up to 'classify' > different kinds of music experiences, only to > exemplify experiences of different kinds which > in an actual music experience may constitute it > as components, to a larger or lesser degree. > Take some of Bach's compositions for instance, > for many of them what Arlo says about > mathematics may hold: "It may help to liken > music to mathematics in this particualr > instance. Both are the arrangement of symbols > towards some symbolic representation. And both > when done properly, open the door to an > aesthetic experience which trascends the particular symbols." > >But the difference between that and the >aesthetic experience of , say, solving a >differential equation, lies largely in the fact >that we experience it also as dance, as body >movement (I'm thinking of some of his Partitas). >There's no doubt that the musical experience on >listening to his Mathew's Passion will not be >the same for an atheist as for a devout >Christian, the added component being a religious experience. > > As an end line, I'd venture to say > that to consider the music experience as an > intellectual one, holds only for a very limited > section of the broad range of the multitude of our music experiences. > > Jorge Goldfarb. > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! >http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ >Moq_Discuss mailing list >Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >Archives: >http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
