On 2/27/08 5:07 AM, "Peter Corteen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi Joe and Ham,
>
> History tells us that the musical scale was established by Pythagoras after
> he noticed the pleasing harmonies of different sized anvils being struck by
> blacksmiths; he discovered that the most pleasing harmony was when one anvil
> was exactly half the size of the other producing an octave, and the musical
> fifth was produced when one anvil was 2/3 size of the other. Experimenting
> with mono chords revealed the other notes. Of course, Ham is correct in
> pointing out Bach's Well Tempered Clavier which solves the circle of fifths
> problem and shows that the various harmonies are all related to the square
> root of two; this was probably just too many numbers for Gurdjieff to cope
> with and besides, because of the elegant solution, he would not then have
> been able to claim it was a 'lawful inexactitude'.
Hi Peter and all,
[Joe]
Thank You! For informing me of Pythagoras' contribution to the musical
scale. Many times I have acknowledged that while Pirsig, in his view of
evolution opts for four levels, my use of the musical scale in singing, for
me is a better model for evolution. The musical scale may be a better
analogue for evolution. I expect you have no opinion on the matter.
> Joe wrote:
>> IMO In the octave of universal creation the sixth place is earth,
>> starting from an Absolute, Do (1), -(shock), Si, 3 (level of all
>> possible system of worlds), La 6 (Level of our Milky Way),
>> Sol 12 (level of our Sun), Fa 24 (level of Planets as one mass,
>> Mi 48 (level of our earth), Re 96 (Level of our Moon), the final
>> note. (The Commentaries by Maurice Nicoll Vol 1 p 122.).
>
> How can that be your opinion, Joe, if you read it in some book? Nicoll got
> all that from Ouspensky who got it from Gurdjieff who said he got it from
> some secret (oh sorry esoteric) brotherhood somewhere in Asia. Gurdjiefff,
> who started out as a stage hypnotist, then added all the crap about shocks,
> all worlds, the numbers etc. and then, for his own ends, said it was all the
> divine law of Seven, he called it heptaparaparshinok (can't be bothered to
> check whether I spelt that right), that and, triamazikamno, his other law of
> three. This stuff is just ludicrous! I know you have to believe it Joe
> otherwise they'll sack you from the group. You can say you don't understand
> it though and they'll tell you that you haven't done enough self-remembering
> yet.
[Joe]
I assure you, Peter, it is my opinion. I recognize the terminology you use.
I do not know what your experience is, but your tone is chiding and
dismissive. That is not the way I try to make sense out of my experience.
> Have you understood how heptaparaparshinok relates to the food octave yet
> Joe? It all has a kind of consistency but on close examination is completely
> arbitrary and invented. How long have your group leaders been doing 'the
> work' Joe? If you've got the nerve ask them which man number they are and do
> they have a Kesdjan body yet! I honestly don't know how you can go in for
> this esoteric creationist stuff and still claim to be interested in the MoQ,
> perhaps you think you might recruit someone? At least Gurdjieff was
> sufficiently people savvy to stop short of the mystical seven and only
> claimed he was man number six. He persisted in smoking and gormandising too
> much (didn't his food octave tell him this wrong), he became grossly
> overweight and kept crashing his cars nearly killing himself on several
> occasions; aside from that he was a megalomaniac which is very evident from
> the first page of his first book 'Herald of the Coming Good' - now withdrawn
> from print by his surviving pupils but it's also evident in his three volume
> 'Beelzebub's Tales to his Grandson'.
[Joe]
I have been 20 years away from a group leader. I have been 45 years away
from the Dominican monastery. To say I have not been influenced by my
education is silly. However, I try to think my own thoughts from my
experience. When I read Pirsig's books in 2000 I was happy later to find
MOQ_discuss on line.
> The Cult of Gurdjieff has split up into many different sects now, his major
> pupil, Ouspensky, was the first to split off and form his rival school. In
> my opinion, Gurdjieff people can be divided into two; gullible, skivvy sheep
> or manipulative, power hungry fascists who think it is a virtue to 'tread on
> people's corns'. I think you are the first variety Joe, otherwise you
> wouldn't be wasting your time here.
[Joe]
Yes, Peter, I am gullible. When I find a view of reality that interests me
I accept it until I don't accept it anymore. Fool me once, Shame on You!
Fool me twice, Shame on Me! MOQ_discuss is not shameful. I am sorry you
found it so!
> Gurdjieff's system just does not fit with the MoQ. Gurdjieff said that
> psychologically man is devolving; he said that pre-Greek era human beings
> were not corrupted as they are today and people back then were more in tune
> with divine law. Pirsig and Julian Jaynes (and many others I'm sure) also
> cited a turning point that came with the ancient Greeks; but whereas Pirsig
> and Jaynes see that turning point as an evolution, Gurdjieff did not and
> that's why it doesn't fit.
[Joe]
IMO Evolution is a sensible explanation for different Levels. The
metaphysics of evolution are open to question. I accept SOL in my own way.
The MOQ meta-level seems to be a discovery of great significance.
> Leave them Joe, before they take over your life.
[Joe]
Thank you! For your regard for my welfare! You seem to speak from a deep
hurt. I empathize with your experience of distrust!
> Regards
>
> -Peter
Joe
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