Mati said to Ron: As I noted in my post to Ian, if you observe modern day research methologies in the eastern cultures they likely teather themselves to the S/O split (SOM) because, I believe, it was the most effective means to define reality in a research environment. If the Eastern philosophical tradition was able to define reality in a more effective means I would suggest that would be a) incorporated already or b) displaced SOM or c) we would be studying them in the western world. ...as illustrated in both ZAMM and LILA, culture has been so entrenched in the SOM it is difficult to see it in any other way. However I will eat my cake and have it too, by saying that is SOM is so entrench in our culture that might suggest this might support defining Intellect as SOM.
dmb says: As the research methods and standard scientific practices show, SOM still dominates. I'm sure you're quite right about that, Mati. But if we equate intellect with SOM, then we have locked out any other possibility. If we define the intellect as SOM exclusively, rather than just predominantly, then we'd never be able to conceive any other options. If SOM and intellect were exactly the same thing then there is no chance of coming up with a counter example, a case where there is intellect without SOM. And that's exactly why I can't buy the idea. I've seen too many philosophical criticisms of SOM to believe that we're hopelessly stuck with it. James, Dewey, Rorty and Pirsig would be my favorite examples because they are so widely known and they're often discussed here. There are others in the East and in the postmodern West, but alternatives can be found right here at home too. And to some extent - although I still have a lot to learn - there is some room for alternative methodol ogies. I'm beginning to realize that the program I'm in now actually makes room to develop such a thing. Anyway, I think the question boils down to something pretty simple. If we have an example where SOM and intellect are NOT the same thing, then intellect is dominated by SOM but not equal to it. The ability to conceive alternatives is one thing and getting the academic culture to accept these alternatives are two different things. The latter is a function of time and history while the former is something I've already seen lots of times, not least of all in Pirsig's MOQ. To boil it down even further, Bo says there can be no such thing and I say there are many examples of just such a thing. Thanks. P.S. I'm not ripe yet but you can expect another flood of questions about methodologies in about a year. _________________________________________________________________ Keep your kids safer online with Windows Live Family Safety. http://www.windowslive.com/family_safety/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_family_safety_072008 Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
