> [Platt] > Why does the topic interest you? Why would you > want answers from someone you describe as a moron? > > [Arlo] > I'd like answers because you continually deride > others with moronic glibs such as "oops". Since > you find it so easy to ridicule others, I wanted > to see what you could possibly offer instead.
A non answer. Why do you want "to see what I could offer instead" since you already consider me a moron? Why do you think "spontaneously arise" is any different than "oops." > You've now answered this, "nothing". You allude > to a "Great Poof", but seem unwilling to talk > about it directly, possibly because you see how > absurd it is. If I am wrong here, then please, by > all means, actually answer my questions below and prove me wrong. > > Don't get me wrong, I do understand why you and > Ham are both incapable and unwilling to deal with > these questions. And I think that's now evident > for everyone to see (if it wasn't already). > Phaedrus encountered the same thing in Chicago > with the Chairman. "He shouldn't have cut it off, > Phædrus thinks to himself. Were he a real > Truth-seeker and not a propagandist for a > particular point of view he would not. He might learn something." (ZMM). > > Your ongoing evasions point to which you are (and > Ham as well). But I am always happy to be proven > wrong. Here is now a sixth attempt at getting some answers. > > [Arlo previously] > Platt had, as is typical, derided the arguments > made by Krimel (about the origins of > consciousness) as "oops". Since Ham has already > indicated his beliefs to be "poof", but has been > wholly unable to articulate any answers to these > simple questions, I thought that Platt, who also > advocates a "Great Poof" theory should have a go > at them. After three posts of evasion (thread was > under What is SOM?), I thought I pull this into a > new thread to, to give Platt (or Ham) a more > noticeable forum to consider these questions. > > I am also adding to this the question about the > evolution of consciousness. But first, the thread > Platt has (so far) been wholly unable to answer. > Hopefully his next post to this will be answers to these questions. > > [Arlo had asked] > First, I assume you'd agree that at some point in > the far, far distant past, some pre-pre-primate > of man lacked the sophistication in > consciousness/awareness that "man" possesses. If > you disagree here, let me know. > > If we accept the above premise, then something > had to change, some event or something that > occurred, some change in something, that can > account for the appearance of something where it did not exist before > No? > > I've been vocal about my view on social > participation (an unintended consequence of > neurological evolution) being this "change". > Physiologists may point to simply the > neurobiological changes in themselves that > account for the appearance of human > consciousness. Both of these views you > characterize (slyly) as "oops". I've argued that > these are not "oops" but "aha's!", moments where > Quality latched onto the unexpected formations > that appeared due to genetic changes. > > So I ask you, Platt, "what changed?" You disavow > both physiological and sociological theories. I > know that. So what do you offer instead? The only > thing I could glean from Ham's responses is a > sort of Divine Intervention, a great > "Abracadabra!" or "Poof!" where "on high" (Ham's > words) suddenly poofed consciousness into existence. > > What do you offer instead of these? Although you > run from the word, the only thing you have ever > offered in the past is "Great Poof" a la Ham of > some "Qualigod". Now tell me, if not "oops" or "aha!" or "poof", then > what? > > [Arlo adds a new question to Platt] > Is it your opinion, along with Ham, that > "consciousness" in man has evolved over historic > time, from "genus to species" (as Ham said), from > the earliest primates with this consciousness to > modern man? Or did "consciousness" appear > fully-formed and fully-evolved in those early primates? > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
