Ron, (or anyone who can answer the simple question)

The "essay" that started off this thread .... did you write that Ron ?

I ask because I have been following up "appropriate use of Godel" in
philosophical debate, for various reasons, not least because I've just
re-read Dennett's Dangerous Idea, and recalled some strong citations
of Godel (from Hofstader, Smullyan, Lem, Penrose amongst others). For
some reason I thought this post was a cut-and-paste from a piece by
Franzen. I now see it cites Franzen, but the piece itself is not
(explicitly) attributed. I'd like to cite it in a blog post.

Regards
Ian

On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 3:38 PM, Ron Kulp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Gödel's Theorem
>
>
> 20 Aug 2007 21:31
>
> ________________________________
>
> A much-abused result in mathematical logic 
> <http://cscs.umich.edu/~crshalizi/notebooks/mathematical-logic.html> , 
> supposed by many authors who don't understand it to support their own favored 
> brand of rubbish, and even subjected to surprisingly rough handling by some 
> who really should know better.
>
> Let me start by trying to make clear just what the theorem states, before 
> going on to poke at the two most common abuses. Gödel's theorem is a result 
> about axiomatic systems, which is already a source of some confusion. In 
> ordinary educated speech, axioms are undubitable truths; for mathematicians, 
> they are propositions it is convenient or amusing to start from. An axiomatic 
> system consists of some undefined terms, a bunch of axioms referring to those 
> terms and partially describing their properties, and a rule or rules for 
> deriving new propositions from already existing propositions. There are 
> really two points to setting up an axiomatic system. First, it's a very 
> compact description of the whole field of propositions derivable from the 
> axioms, so large bodies of math can be compressed down into a very small 
> compass. Second, because it's so abstract, the system lets us derive all and 
> only the results which follow from things having the formal properties 
> specified by the axioms. One can set up axiomatic systems describing, say, 
> kinship networks, and then you get results which depend only on having two 
> parents, one of each sex, and so are applicable to anything with that formal 
> property; and similarly for axiomatic geometry, algebra, etc., etc. An 
> axiomatic system is said to be consistent if, given the axioms and the 
> derivation rules, we can never derive two contradictory propositions; 
> obviously, we want our axiomatic systems to be consistent.
>
> One of the first modern axiomatic systems was a formalization of simple 
> arithmetic (adding and multiplying whole numbers) by the great logician 
> Giuseppe Peano, called Peano arithmetic. What Kurt Gödel did was to show that 
> every syntactically correct proposition in Peano arithmetic can be 
> represented by a unique integer, called its Gödel number. (The trick is to 
> replace each symbol in the proposition, including numerals, by a different 
> string of digits. If we represent "1" by 01, "2" by "02", "+" by 10 and "=" 
> by "11", then the Gödel number of "1+1=2" is 0110011102. Gödel numbers tend 
> to be huge.) This lets us write down, unambiguously, propositions which are 
> about propositions. In particular, we can write down self-referential 
> propositions, ones which include their own Gödel number. (This usually won't 
> work if numerals are represented by themselves, of course.) From here, Gödel 
> showed that, either the system is inconsistent (horrors!), or there are true 
> propositions which can't be reached from the axioms by applying the 
> derivation rules. The system is thus incomplete, and the truth of those 
> propositions is undecidable (within that system). Such undecidable 
> propositions are known as Gödel propositions or Gödel sentences. Nobody knows 
> what the Gödel sentences for Peano arithmetic are, though people have their 
> suspicions about Goldbach's conjecture (every even number is the sum of two 
> prime numbers). [Update, June 2005: Actually, that's wrong. Wolfgang Beirl 
> <http://yolanda3.dynalias.org/tsm/tsm.html>  has pointed out to me that 
> Goodstein's Theorem <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodstein%27s_theorem>  is 
> a result about natural numbers which is undecidable within Peano arithmetic, 
> but provable within stronger set-theoretic systems. And it's actually a neat 
> theorem, with no self-referential weirdness!]
>
> So far we've just been talking about Peano arithemtic, but now comes the 
> kicker. Results about an axiomatic system apply to any bunch of things which 
> satisfy the axioms. There are an immense number of other axiomatic systems 
> which either include Peanese numbers among their basic entities, or where 
> such things can be put together; they either have numbers, or can construct 
> them. (These systems are said to provide models of Peano arithmetic.) It 
> follows that these systems, too, contain undecidable propositions, and are 
> incomplete.
>
> There are two very common but fallacious conclusions people make from this, 
> and an immense number of uncommon but equally fallacious errors I shan't 
> bother with. The first is that Gödel's theorem imposes some of profound 
> limitation on knowledge, science, mathematics. Now, as to science, this 
> ignores in the first place that Gödel's theorem applies to deduction from 
> axioms, a useful and important sort of reasoning, but one so far from being 
> our only source of knowledge it's not even funny. It's not even a very common 
> mode of reasoning in the sciences, though there are axiomatic formulations of 
> some parts of physics. Even within this comparatively small circle, we have 
> at most established that there are some propositions about numbers which we 
> can't prove formally. As Hintikka says, "Gödel's incompleteness result does 
> not touch directly on the most important sense of completeness and 
> incompleteness, namely, descriptive completeness and incompleteness," the 
> sense in which an axiom systems describes a given field. In particular, the 
> result "casts absolutely no shadow on the notion of truth. All that it says 
> is that the whole set of arithmetical truths cannot be listed, one by one, by 
> a Turing machine." Equivalently, there is no algorithm which can decide the 
> truth of all arithmetical propositions. And that is all.
>
> This brings us to the other, and possibly even more common fallacy, that 
> Gödel's theorem says artificial intelligence is impossible, or that machines 
> cannot think. The argument, so far as there is one, usually runs as follows. 
> Axiomatic systems are equivalent to abstract computers, to Turing machines, 
> of which our computers are (approximate) realizations. (True.) Since there 
> are true propositions which cannot be deduced by interesting axiomatic 
> systems, there are results which cannot be obtained by computers, either. 
> (True.) But we can obtain those results, so our thinking cannot be adequately 
> represented by a computer, or an axiomatic system. Therefore, we are not 
> computational machines, and none of them could be as intelligent as we are; 
> quod erat demonstrandum. This would actually be a valid demonstration, were 
> only the pentultimate sentence true; but no one has ever presented any 
> evidence that it is true, only vigorous hand-waving and the occasional 
> heartfelt assertion.
>
> Gödel's result is of course quite interesting, if you're doing mathematical 
> logic, and it even has some importance for that odd little specialization of 
> logic, the theory of computation 
> <http://cscs.umich.edu/~crshalizi/notebooks/computation.html> . (It is 
> intimately related to the halting problem, for instance.) It also makes a 
> fine piece of general mathematical culture; but it doesn't shake the 
> foundations of the house of intellect, or exalt us above all else that greps.
>
> (Thanks to Jakub Jasinski for politely pointing out an embarrassing error in 
> an earlier version.)
>
> Recommended:
>
> *       Michael Arbib, Brains, Machines and Mathematics [A good sketch of the 
> proof of the theorem, without vaporizing]
> *       George S. Boolos and Richard C. Jeffrey, Computability and Logic 
> [Textbook, with a good discussion of incompleteness results, along with many 
> other things. Intended more for those interested in the logical than the 
> computational aspects of the subject - they do more with model theory than 
> with different notions of computation, for instance - but very strong all 
> around.]
> *       Torkel Franzen, Gödel's on the net 
> <http://www.sm.luth.se/~torkel/eget/godel.html>  [Gentle debunking of many of 
> the more common fallacies and misunderstandings]
> *       Jaakko Hintikka, The Principles of Mathematics Revisited [Does a nice 
> job of defusing Gödel's theorem, independently of some interesting ideas 
> about logical truth and the like, about which I remain agnostic. My 
> quotations above are from p. 95]
> *       Dale Myers, Gödel's Incompleteness Theorem 
> <http://www.math.hawaii.edu/~dale/godel/godel.html>  [A very nice web page 
> that builds slowly to the proof]
> *       Roger Penrose, The Emperor's New Mind [Does a marvelous job of 
> explaining what goes into the proof - his presentation could be understood by 
> a bright high school student, or even an MBA 
> <http://cscs.umich.edu/~crshalizi/notebooks/management.html>  - but then 
> degenerates into an unusually awful specimen of the standard argument against 
> artificial intelligence <http://cscs.umich.edu/~crshalizi/notebooks/ai.html> ]
> *       Willard Van Orman Quine, Mathematical Logic [Proves a result which is 
> actually somewhat stronger than the usual version of Gödel's theorem in the 
> last chapter, which however adds no philosophical profundity; review 
> <http://cscs.umich.edu/~crshalizi/reviews/mathematical-logic/> ]
> *       Raymond Smullyan, Gödel's Incompleteness Theorems [A mathematical 
> textbook, not for the faint at heart, though the first chapter isn't so bad; 
> one of the few to notice the strength of Quine's result]
>
> To read:
>
> *       John C. Collins, "On the Compatibility Between Physics and 
> Intelligent Organisms," physics/0102024 
> <http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0102024>  [Claims to have a truly elegant 
> refutation of Penrose]
> *       Rebecca Goldstein, Incompleteness [Biography of Gödel, which seems to 
> actually understand the math]
> *       Ernest Nagel and James R. Newman, Gödel's Proof [Thanks to S. T. 
> Smith for the recommendation]
> *       Mario Rabinowitz, "Do the Laws of Nature and Physics Agree About What 
> is Allowed and Forbidden?" physics/0104001 
> <http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0104001>
>
>
>
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