All, It has been interesting to watch the political grumbling, grousing, outré, etc.
Speaking only for the US... All the elections I have ever seen and all the candidates elected have found their rhetoric neatly pruned from their actions by the daily grind of government, the unknown, unanticipated, and often insoluble problems dropping into their laps uninvited. To pretend there is more than a half-a-dime's thickness difference in the candidates' real positions compared to the true political continuum is a magnificent act of faith in the pretense of a two party system, when the reality is a Venn diagram of two circles so close to overlapping that a scant sliver of single digit area on right and left is all the difference in "candidate population" that gets floated for the voters. Citizens differ more than the candidates, but the party process puts up gray men of little character, modest vision, and high ratio of self-regard-to- capability, alas. If it makes one feel more optimistic that we elected one candidate over the other, fine, but we elected an ivy league candidate to follow an ivy league, candidate who followed two prior ivy leaguers. And one thing that ivy league does well is hammering students into the shape of Social Quality. If I were looking for Intellectual Quality I would look elsewhere, but we seem to be finding our balance point on the social lately. Andre, As to your invocation of the names Kennedy, Lincoln, and King; those men were not universally loved in their times. Goddess History has kissed them with her fond regard as they were 'martyred' in the eyes of those who would seek peaceful disagreement and not the veto of their lives by violence. It could be argued that from a Constitutional perspective, Lincoln should have been shot as a tyrant, with his suspension of Habeas Corpus. MLK's death was probably inevitable in the time and melieu of America 1968. The miracle was that we lost so few of the Civil Rights leaders to the civil wrongs dealers. Kennedys' may have been as much the chickens coming home to roost as anything else, with their stomping on organized crime and how to the long memories of gangsters who felt Joe Kennedy was one of theirs, this was a personal betrayal to be handled the same way as any other mob betrayal. No one got to really question Oswald and Sirhan seemed to be a bit "special." Acrimony in American politics is less now than in many periods of US history. Rioting and large numbers of people killed used to mark election days and led to closing of bars and cessation of liquor sales on election days. Now it's mostly just words and the double vision that all politicians are cheats and liars and "our party's cheats and liars are better than yours." On the other hand, breaking any pattern, by tossing out an incumbent, is going to bring new enthusiasm if nothing else. It is done... Meanwhile we can focus on our own business and get things done that we can control and hope Gov't is not doing anything to crater things. thanks--mel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andre Broersen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 11:08 PM Subject: Re: [MD] political harmony > Gentlemen, gentlemen,( I may have missed but I didn't notice any women > taking part in these, sometimes heated exchanges, if I have : apologies) > > What we have been witnessing this last week is American democracy at work. > Is has been the dynamic expression of what your SPOV's allow. You should be > proud and relieved but I hear nothing but complaints, disappointment, left-, > right- and centre bashing, etc,etc,etc. > > You sound like a pack of whinging pommy bastards. > > Here in China, there are no elections, the people are excluded from > expressing themselves politically. They have the Party political ideology > rammed down their throats, they do not like it but they are one of the most > optimistic people I have ever met. > Some of the people I have met have gone through things you and I together > hope never to go through. However their basic outlook, their basic > experience of life is one of optimism. If and when times are tough everybody > chips in to help eachother. The sense of community is strong, the sense of > togetherness is strong. Always friendly, helpful, caring. > > You have elections, you have a say in the political processes of the > country, you have the capitalist, free-market ideology rammed down your > throats...it is the basis upon which America is built, you love it!! > Yet, the people have spoken and you do not like it or , at the least, are > extremely guarded....and very worried. > > What do you want? What monster have you created with this freedom of speech, > of assembly, of self-determination, of individual rights, free market > economy, government by representation, that you react so bitterly, > guardedly, pessimistically? > > How do these express your static Social PoV's. Is there still a connection? > America has brought forth some fantastic people: Abraham Lincoln, shot! > John F. Kennedy,shot! Robert Kennedy, shot! Martin Luther King, shot! > (Ofcourse there are a host of others, but these were outstanding hope > giving, intelligent people). > > And now you have chosen Barak Obama. A brilliant speaker I must say, a > person, through whose rhetoric and intellectual ability, can conjure up hope > and hopefully some change. > You are putting him in charge of an 'intellectual, social and economic > rust-belt, a whole society that has given up on Dynamic improvement and is > slowly trying to slip back to Victorianism, the last static ratchet-latch' > (Lila,p310). And I can add here of course a political/ > governmental rust-belt (no different from the Chinese or Russian or for that > matter the European one). > > No wonder he suggested 1 term will not be enough. > > What do you want? > What does an 'ideal' America look like? > > Sometimes you have to will to change (for the better), you have to will to > hope(for the better), you have to will to be compassionate (for the better), > you have to will to care( for the better). > > Barak Obama is the best choice America could have made and you did it. The > world is hopeful again. About eff'n time too! > > Say: we can do it!! > > For what it is worth. > > Andre > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
