Ron: I was waiting for this comment, NO. Remember the illusion conversations? We are recognizing an ultimate reality, we just realize that what we know of it is a static conceptualization of infinitly running stimuli or qualia.
[Krimel] I don't see how this clarifies much. You are still left with "static conceptualizations" which strike me as purely private "mental" events. [Marsha] Parse, knowing, concept are analogies and static patterns of value. [Krimel] You seem to be chasing your tail. A pattern is a concept, which is a pattern, which is a concept... [Marsha] Even 'experience' is an analogy. [Krimel] Analogous to what? [Ham] Not if you understand that objects and events are phenomenal. They represent our intellectual constructs of Value (or what Pirsig calls "pre-intellectual experience"). Now, if you are regard Value as "mental", then everything is subjective and reality is, indeed, a solipsism. But this is not what Pirsig says. Instead, he equates Quality (Value) with Reality as primary to the S/O patterns of experiential existence. These "patterns" are phenomena -- the experienced "forms" of Value that we objectivize as Being. [Krimel] You leave me wondering which meaning of phenomena you intend. In physics it means events in the external world. In philosophy it refers to purely mental events. Which do you mean or is the confusion intentional? You say that '"patterns" are phenomena,' I have no idea what that is supposed to mean. How does one "objectivize" anything? Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
