Platt says to Ham: No. Consciousness is not a collection of anything. It's one thing. Various individuals tap into it, from particles to porcupines to people. That's my conclusion anyway. Actually, consciousness (experience) logically precedes that conclusion, or for that matter, any idea about reality. As Andre has discovered, art is it. And when we become artists, we know it. Best wishes, Platt
Andre: Hello Platt (thank you for your confidence), Ham The MoQ= Experience! The Moq has given experience a voice but as we keep on repeating, the voice always falls short of the experience itself. For me ( I must stress this because I do not want to impose anything on anyone else) the MoQ is the most wonderfull (romantic) and rational (classical) representation of experience since god, buddha and jesus and who knows when gave us their message concerning this self same thing (they are/were all human beings you know?!! all different PoV's). The MoQ is beyond words- it is simply 'apprehended' in the same way a child understands quality.( but [as an adult] you have to want to be open to this...the beginners mind) It is a Code of Art and beyond intellectualisation. It really is beyond words, but 'The West' needs words. The Bible is founded on it ( and in the beginning etc etc) and I agree with Bodvar that when Pirsig talks about the social level he talks about it as the 'church'...in a religious sense because of its total domination over this level over an incredibly long period of time. The thing, of course is that 'the West' has a particular set of glasses and a particular set of patterns that make sure these glasses stay where they are. The MoQ points, in a sense, to the creators of these glasses and finds that they belong to vested interests (social/biological) that have absolutely nothing to find or gain in any dynamic stuff. These creators who keep on re-creating themselves and defining themselves through these glasses (money, power, wealth, influence, posessions etc , etc,...celebrity stuff...purely social). They would be stupid to want to change. Jzee whizzz this is all they have ...their entire personality, their entire reason for being, their entire basis of existence is measured and reflected in these things. That is why Pirsig states that there is something vulgar in this. A very well chosen word. Vulgar:...not showing what is beautiful and good manners... ( from my Longman). Problem with the "West" ( of which I am a product) is that you have to SELL this (MoQ) experiencing. In much the same way that Lila tried to sell her Florida cruise to Phaedrus. This is its own (the West's) tragedy. Once you realise that you do not need to be defined (along all 4 levels) you are free- you become artist. Once you find (out) that you do not have to be (de)fined you are free to find. Freedom is never given,always threatened.(the core of my SOM concern about its continued role in the MoQ). For what it is worth. Andre Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
