David to Marsha: I just feel a kinship with Krimel because while we seem to disagree about most things, we share a frustration with MoQ's mystic assertions. -david swift
Andre: Hi David, the 'mystic assertions' of the MoQ have in a large part been responsible for the 'creation' of the MoQ. Pirsig is quite adamant about this and clearly states so (again) in the 'On the Road' DVD. He says: 'A large part of the MoQ is based on Oriental mysticism'. Remember when, in ZMM, he states that: 'Phaedrus,following a path that to his knowlwgde had never been taken before in the history of Western thought, went straight between the horns of the subjectivity-objectivity dilemma and said Quality is neither a part of mind, nor is it a part of matter.' (p231). The he went into a 'third mystical wave' identifying Quality as 'that event which gives rise to mind and matter'. (p241) and finding that Lao Tsu's 'Tao' corresponds to his Quality as well as 'the Buddha'. Quality opposes 'subjectivity'. It takes you outside of yourself. (p233) IMHO I think that it is frustrating for us 'Westerners' because we have been brought up in the S/O way of thinking. Nice,safe,definable entities, everything in its 'right' place etc etc. (See also Dan's recent post) However, to even think in this way (i.e that the S/O divide is (only) a static intellectual pattern of quality) meets apprehension and quizzical looks from anyone who cares to hear it. To put it in Pirsig's words: 'The idea that the world is composed of nothing but moral value sounds impossible at first.'(Lila p101) It is also a challenge for us to incorporate that 'mystical' part which is crucial to understanding the MoQ as a whole. And I agree with you that this is sometimes frustrating. In a dynamic sense I regard the MoQ as a finger pointing to...and in a static sense the patterned, aesthetic continuum. For what it is worth Andre Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
