Andre and DMB.
12 Mar. you wrote:
after DMB had written:
> > As part of my counter argument, I'm saying that the subject-object
> > distinction is older than the intellect and that intellect inherited it
> > from the older level, the mythos.
and he had quoted ZAMM
> > "Thus, in cultures whose ancestry includes ancient Greece, one
> > invariably finds a strong subject-object differentiation because the
> > grammar of the old Greek mythos presumed a sharp natural division of
> > subjects and predicates. In cultures such as the Chinese, where
> > subject-predicate relationships are not rigidly defined by grammar, one
> > finds a corresponding absence of rigid subject-object philosophy."
> > (ZAMM, chapter 28).
Andre:
> Hi David, I am listening at the moment to Philip Glass' 'Satyagraha' .
> What you are quoting here is revealing to me. I am/was convinced that
> Pirsig said the opposite somewhere ..something like...before Homer,
> 'when the subject/object distinction did not exist'...or something
> along those lines...must look it up, go through both ZMM and Lila. If
> I find no contradiction to this statement my understanding of the MoQ
> will make a paradigm shift. But questions and clarifications will
> follow... Ahh, shit, oh well, 'such is life', as Ned Kelly said
> before they dropped him (with a rope around his neck). Thanks David!
DMB has the bad habit of returning to ZAMM without any
"transformation" to MOQish. In that book Pirsig made a lot of
observations - among these the said one - IMO many stem from
long before the Quality Idea and kind of contradicts it. This one
however is good MOQ
Anaxagoras and Parmenides had a listener named
Socrates who carried their ideas into full fruition. What is
essential to understand at this point is that until now there
was no such thing as mind and matter, SUBJECT AND
OBJECT, form and substance.
Regarding the quote you mention "..I am/was convinced that Pirsig
said the opposite somewhere ..something like...before Homer,
'when the subject/object distinction did not exist'...or something
along those lines..." It's from LILA
Perhaps in Homer's time, when evolution had not yet
transcended the social level into the intellectual, the two
were the same.
..and concerns the SOL issue "the Greeks=the intellectual level" .
That the Greeks means SOM in a MOQ context is obvious. If this
is undermined, the whole MOQ collapses. Don't let yourself be
duped that easy. What's happening? Even the most established
Q-facts are jettisoned in an effort to get rid of the SOL.
Bodvar
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