[John] Intellectual descriptions are inevitably culturally derived. But... In order to conceptualize self, the Other is of absolute, logical necessity.
[Arlo] I don't see how this is a "but". Of course, "culturally derived" means following the assimiliation of a social symbolic code, which, of course, derives from the mutuality of recognizing the "other". [John] The apprehension of difference, contrast, similarity and definition is no doubt shaped by culture, language and intellect, but I'd say primarily it derives from an interactive relationship; first and foremost before language/culture gets its greedy paws on it. [Arlo] Let me ask, does a dog have this apprehension? An amoeba? A carbon atom? At what point, and how, do these apprehensions appear? [John] I'm with Ham on this point; to me, nothing is more EVIDENT than my thinking. [Arlo] I don't know, I was sitting here eating a dark chocolate bar infused with chili extract, and I think that in the moment of enjoying that, nothing was more evident. [John] And a metaphysics that takes human perception of "time" as an absolute given is fraught with difficulty and paradox. [Arlo] Of course, but you have to ACCOUNT for it. You can't simply ignore it. If you are, for example, proposing that modern human cognition "causes" the past, then this MUST be explicit and substantiated in your argument. You can't simply say "ignore time" or "ignore history". If you want to argue that the reason it appears that human in ancient pre-history acquired consciousness is because modern humans had it given to them by an outside source, then your "metaphysics" must explain this. If you account for dinosaurs by saying the bones are there because modern human imagination willed them into existence, then you must explain this. I'm not arguing for any particular view of "time" per se, only that when a theory denies what we know about history (geological, anthropological, social, etc.) then it can't just go "forget about all that stuff". Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
