hey gorgeous, > [gav] > so you believe systems exist independently of the observer? > > an independent objective reality was discredited 100 years > ago by quantum > physics. pirsig revealed the constructed nature of SOM > reality. > > [Krimel] > You have unwittingly raised and interesting point, which I > am coming to > suspect is the only way that could happen. You claim that > "an independent > objective reality was discredited 100 years ago by quantum > physics." This is > just not true. The QM dudes altered our understanding of > the world of the > very, very small but there is as yet no consensus as to > what that might mean > on the scale of the everyday world. There have been > different explanations > proposed and ATM none seems to be especially dominant. This > is exactly the > kind of situation that gives the lie to the idea that > science is dogmatic.
gav: you talk like a dickhead. how does that feel? krimel:"You claim that > "an independent > objective reality was discredited 100 years ago by quantum > physics." This is > just not true. " gav: no you are just speaking shite. if you argue with this sorta stuff what hope have you got of not being a dickhead? - not fucking much. > > [gav] > the immediate present is eternal; it is outside time - time > is > psychological. time and space as independent structuring > elements of > experience is a kantian concept and is at odds with radical > empiricism and > pirsig and buddhism and taoism and physics etc > > [Krimel] > Come on, gav, act like you have a clue. That is just a lot > of nonsense > pretending to sound important because you randomly drop in > a few names. I > bet it sounds better in a warm bath with a head full of > shrooms. But try > saving things until the next day and reread them before you > hit send. gav: nice argument dickhead!! what salient and subtle points like 'nonsense' and 'act like you have a clue'...but no actual addressing of the points raised. funny that. dickhead. > > [gav] > your thinking pressuposes SOM - senses responding to an > external (system > dependent) reality - that is *subject experiencing object*. > this is as > non-moq as it is possible to be. > > [Krimel] > I have been through this a dozen times with your cult > leader. I have no > intention of rehashing this with someone who doesn't have > the juice to keep > up. > gav: yes i wonder why dickhead. could it be that your head is so far up your own arse you are unable to respond in any other way. > [gav] > if you are here to argue with pirsig about the fundamentals > of his work then > i reckon that's kinda pointless, but i guess that's your > prerogative. > > [Krimel] > If I were here to argue with Pirsig this really would have > been a waste of > time. > > (BTW, Bob, my spam filter is especially sensitive and keeps > blocking your > messages... Try "Krimel, you Suck" in the subject line.) > > I have been especially disappointed to see how you and the > Aw Gi have > squandered the potential of his work on a bunch of new age > foolishness. It > is especially galling to have twits like you sounding all > smug and self > assured in their cluelessness. > > "Let's drink to Henry Miller and look for goddesses to > defile." gav: how ya feeling sqaureboy? i am surprised you have read miller? or have you? just dropping names perhaps. how does it feel to be so square? can u feel at all? do you love anyone krimel? how does that feel? > [gav] > you thoroughly identify with SOM. do you realise this? > > [Krimel] > Not at all; but you are welcome to peruse the archives. gav: mate i have perused them for years; no need to rehash cos you haven't changed! you are still SOM to the core and blind as a fucking deaf bat. > > [gav] > it is frustrating to go through all the basics that pirsig > has explored much > more thoroughly in his books. > > [Krimel] > Yes, it is really frustrating to have some one pointing in > the so many right > directions and yet see people staring at blank spots on the > wall. gav: you really think you know better than pirsig? - that you can correct the 'many errors in his work' and produce a synthesis that is gonna be awesome! do it then! see how you go. i don't think you will have quite the same success...but i could be wrong... well that's a lie. i know i am right. > > [gav] > what do you agree with pirsig about? > > [Krimel] > I think Pirsig has remarkable instincts to some the > critical issues of the > past century. Overall his two books have inspired my > thinking as much as any > two books I can think of. But that doesn't mean I am > drinking the Kool-aide. > He sees many of the issues clearly but when painted into a > corner he gets > things a bit tangled. > His modifications of Taoism for example. > His understanding of the importance of coding and encoding > without grasping > the significance. > He explains of random access very well and then runs away > from the > implications. > His sophomoric account of evolution. > > Until I came here I mostly ignored these as minor > indiscretions but when I > see how far off track these errors have led people I tend > to get a little > crabby. gav: you may have noticed that i have lost my civil tongue cos quite frankly you deserve a tongue lashing. your disrespect towards marsha was the last straw for me. your disrespect of pirsig follows close behind. but generally your manner is appalling. you don't listen!!!! you are sure you are right...you are a chauvinist, in more ways than one. the luxury of having dmb, ant, dan, marsha and others to help you, and they have tried so hard, and you offer no thanks or respect....what is your problem? you are not worthy of such careful efforts it seems to me. but maybe i am wrong...maybe you will let someone in, consider an alternative perspective, see how it feels...maybe you will decide to stay off the computer for a while and go and EXPERIENCE the world. maybe you will shut up long enough to get quiet inside again....maybe you will let go....eventually you have to. i just hope it happens before you die. see ya testicle face > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > Need a Holiday? 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