And Marsha, I think I love you. I do definitely love you loving me, which must be much the same thing but without making my wife jealous. John
On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 11:00 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: > > Oh dear, it's my lacking a sense of propriety. I enjoy your posts very > much. They are intelligent, thought-provoking and wise... AND you have a > wonderful sense of humor. This one, though, just meandered across the part > of my brain that stimulates absurdity. > > I love you John... > > > Marsha > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of MarshaV > Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 1:41 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [MD] John Carl's Critique of Pure Experience INST04 > > > You are a funny guy, and I appreciate the laughter, but this one was just > too much... You wrote, > > "What is the whole point of man's existence but to conceptualize? It's > something we do better than all the animals, it lies at the heart of our > intellectual being, and I don't see the point of denigrating or bemoaning > the fact that we inevitably conceptualize." > > Talk about reality is whatever you think! > > > Marsha > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of John Carl > Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 1:24 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [MD] John Carl's Critique of Pure Experience INST04 > > Good one indeed Marsha. Thank you. > I've gotten that "compliment" a few times from Dave and it always > makes me wonder, just a bit, exactly how to take it. Like a comedian > doing stand-up where the house is real quiet and nobody laughs at his > jokes and afterward somebody comes up to him and says, "That was > great. Real thought provoking." > > Ok... maybe wasn't what he was going for, but ok. > > John > > On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 10:15 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: > > > John, > > > > You are such a funny guy... Here's a repost of my very, very favorite > DanG > > story... > > > > > > > > John, From: Dan Glover <[email protected]> > > To: <[email protected]> > > Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 02:01:51 -0500 > > Subject: Re: [MD] (no subject) > > > > > > Driving down the road one day, in a hurry as usual, I caught sight of a > > sign > > just as I passed it. Curious, I made a u-turn and went back. The sign > said: > > Buddist Temple and just below that was a little hand-painted note that > > said: > > All Are Welcome. So I drove into the compound. I parked the car in the > > parking lot and walked into the temple. > > > > Your sign is misspelled, I told the young man at the counter. He laughed > a > > loud belly laugh. I thought maybe he hadn't understood me. I explained > that > > there should be an "h" in Buddhist. He laughed again, this time falling > to > > the floor and rolling around as he grabbed his sides with his hands as if > > his ribs hurt from laughing so hard. > > > > About this time an older man appeared from behind some curtains, > apparently > > drawn by the laughter. Thinking that the older man was in charge, I > > approached him. He wore a long orange robe and he looked quite regal from > a > > distance but as he got closer I could see many tattered rips in his robe > > that had been carefully repaired and I could see his nose hair needed > > trimming. The man looked very old. > > > > Hey mister, I said, I thought you should know that your sign out on the > > road > > is misspelled. It should read B-U-D-D-H-I-S-T, not Buddist. He looked at > me > > a long time without saying a word. I thought perhaps he didn't speak > > English. I looked over my shoulder for the younger man who could perhaps > > translate for me but he had disappeared. > > > > When I looked back towards the old man, he had turned around and was > > walking > > back through the curtain from where he'd first appeared. He waved a hand > > over his shoulder as if motioning me to follow. So I did. We walked down > a > > long hallway, made a turn to the left, and then a turn to the right, and > > emerged outside close to where I parked. The old man motioned me to get > in > > my car, so I did. Then he waved goodbye. So I drove off. > > > > On my way out of the compound, I stopped, pulled down the Buddist Temple > > sign, and threw it in the weeds that grew by the road. > > > > > > > > ----------- > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of John Carl > > Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 12:45 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [MD] John Carl's Critique of Pure Experience INST04 > > > > On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 2:01 AM, Ian Glendinning > > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > > John, DMB, again, you are at the nub of all our issues ... > > > > > > > > Well for some that might be an aggravation, but for me it's a relief. I > > only think "root" when I hear "radical". Nothing else. Well... there is > > this quick conceptualized radish that twinkles in my brain for a moment. > I > > always associate radishes with radicals. Just like Dave associates lima > > beans with low quality. > > > > > > > > > > > > > DMB "the idea is to fix that defective value-free intellect." > > > > > > John "Man will inevitably conceptualize, its in his nature." > > > > > > It certainly has been human nature ... but it's an evolved and > > > evolving nature ... we can still learn. > > > > > > Clearly we are never going to get some "pure" definitive handle on > > > pure-experience (or Quality) without contaminating it with conceptual > > > objects. > > > > > > Almost there, "contamination" should be in quotes cuz that implies some > > sort > > of evil infiltration, does it not? What is the whole point of man's > > existence but to conceptualize? It's something we do better than all the > > animals, it lies at the heart of our intellectual being, and I don't see > > the > > point of denigrating or bemoaning the fact that we inevitably > > conceptualize. > > > > Because it keeps us from experiencing the moment? What moment? That one > > right there? Or the one coming up next? > > > > It's a ridiculous game invented to keep you going in circles so you can > see > > the circles so you can stop going around in circles. > > > > "Transcend" is the aim of that game. But because Pirsig has to make some > > sort of static statement to get you to see these circles, and W James > > comprehends the needed psychotherapeutic solution to the static > > intellectual > > traps of SOM, acolytes of Jamesian Pirsigianism turn the circle into an > > object of veneration which means it's now degeneracy to get off! Let us > > all bow down and say Ohhhmmmm before the great Pure Experience. And on > and > > on it goes, whither it stops, nobody knows. > > > > I wonder if this is sort of Bo's point. I'm not very good at > > following other people's arguments. But then, nobody is. > > > > > > > > > > > BUT what this kind of radical empiricism is saying is PLEASE > > > notice that defect, PLEASE discount your pre-conceived objects so far > > > as you possibly can whenever experiencing something, or interpreting > > > experience in another. > > > > > > > > > Which might be very helpful to some kinds of intellectuals, in some kinds > > of > > intellectual traps. I mean please look carefully at "pre-concieved" > What > > exactly is that? I know it means "that idea that is in your mind BEFORE > > experience" but some ideas that are before experience come in right > handy. > > For instance, if I have an idea that the stove might be hot, my > > pre-conception is gonna keep my butt from getting burned. Is that "lower > > quality" than actually getting the pure experience of blistered buns? > > > > Has anybody ever defined the MoQ as a system designed specifically to > cure > > the world view problems of academics? I don't think that's fair. > > Motorcycles mechanics need metaphysics too, ya know. Preferably > something > > easy to handle that stores nicely but works well when you need it and > > doesn't break. > > > > A larger-than-lifetime guarantee wouldn't be so bad. > > > > John > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > > Archives: > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
