Hi Ron (Bo quoted) --
[Ron]:
Pirsig posits that objective scientific realism is a social value. Its what his entire thesis is based on. ... It is the center piece of the argument. You may disagree, but using culturally derived definitions of the term "intellect" falls to the above "unanalyzed assumptions" as the principle determinant.
Bo apparently agrees, jusging by these quotes from the Loneliness thread:
I knew the moment I gave in to any other definition of intellect than my own I was on thin ice. So forget it.
[Ham]:
If possible, I'd appreciate an explanation in epistemological rather than evolutionary terms.
[Bo]:
Sorry, but "the moment one gives in to epistemology" - to knowledge - one is at intellect's-as SOM's mercy.
It would seem that Mr. Prisig has based his entire thesis on three misconstrued terms of his own invention: Quality, Intellect, and Dynamic. He has made Quality the primary Intellect as a "social pattern", although it too is a human capability. And without logical justification he has described the primary source (DQ) as "dynamic", presumably to incorporate evolution -- an existential process.
While redefining these universal terms serves the author's purpose (to eliminate subjects), it leaves conscious awareness unexplained or accounted for. As I've noted repeatedly here, intellect is a conceptual process of human reasoning, not the cognizant self or Knower of intelligence. Pirsig may get rid of subjects by positing a "collective consciousness", as did Donald Hoffman and Merrill-Wolff before him. For the life of me, however, I fail to see how a philosophy that totally dismisses awareness can survive public scrutiny, much less the logicians of academia.
And, while it may qualify me as the 'SOMist' in your midst, the sacrifice of human awareness is too big a price for any philosopher to ask, no matter how enlightening or radical his ontology may be.
Thanks for your responses, gentlemen. Best regards, Ham Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
