Mary to All: If all is Quality, why can't we see it coming? What do we lack in order to predict the ultimate outcome or goal of Quality? At the various levels, why do we not universally agree on what the highest Quality outcome would be? Why, for example, has there been recent disagreement here surrounding the best behavior of government? Should we not be able to all equally discern this? Shouldn't recognition of Quality at all levels be as intuitive as the hot stove?
Andre: Hi Mary, pleased to meeet you here.I am not sure how many respondents have reacted to this post and maybe I am repeating some of the ideas already presented...(I have touched down in my new destination for the next 6 months). You ask why do we not see quality coming? My response is: how can you see something coming that is already there. As Mr. Pirsig asked (I believe in LC) how is that that people deny (!) seeing quality? It's the pernicious SOM stronghold/tentacles (as Bodvar would put it). Quality doesn't 'come'. It's like ( again using Bodvars analogy) the wave asking why we cannot see the ocean. You ask: 'What do we lack...' ? I think we lack the quality insight. As simple as that...and we are steeped in SOM... meaning, we see quality in the objects around us rather than the other way around. Again to use Pirsig's example of the 'song' in Lila: we think the quality lies in the song we have just heard and are crazy about...but, of course, this is not an accurate representation of the experience that has taken place. Similar to an MoQ'er asking someone: 'Why do you get out of bed in the morning? The SOM answer would be..to go to work, or have breakfast or go somewhere or whatever...the point is that the getting out of bed is 'better' (i.e it has more quality) than staying in there. The 'work' , or 'breakfast' or 'going somewhere' is then attributed as having that quality (and 'making you act') but it doesn't. It's the quality that has already 'created' the 'work', 'breakfast' , the 'whatever' as a static pattern. Also, imho, I think that Quality has no goal or ultimate predictive qualities. The point is to experience. This is the highest 'good'... but,...it refers to experience in the MoQ sense (DQ/SQ), not the SOM sense (static s/o). Mary: Why, for example, has there been recent disagreement here surrounding the best behavior of government? Should we not be able to all equally discern this? Shouldn't recognition of Quality at all levels be as intuitive as the hot stove? Andre: The hot stove example is an organic 'intuition' ( Bodvar would call this: sensing') and its direct 'counterpart is the inorganic (the social has very little to do with this/ let alone the intellectual). As Pirsig would argue, it is one of those experiences one can set up and repeat ad infinitum but the result will be the same. (and be clear on the difference in response Pirsig suggests between the monk and the intellectual...the monk gets off sooner). What the fire-walker tries to prove is beyond me...it's as 'silly' as holding one's breath for 5 minutes or getting buried for 10 days. They are remarkeable feats but I do not quite understand what these have to do with DQ. It implies to me that these people are further away from direct experience rather that closer to it. I think the MoQ would appreciate the latter to the former.....but if you get a kick out of walking on hot coles for a 1000 yards, be my guest. Perhaps there is a 'level' we will reach one day, where all levels are able to manipulate/control one another without harm and for mutual benefit to a much farther extent than we are able to at present. This leads to the following: When you ask about 'best behaviour of government' you are referring to two different and more highly evolved levels i.e the social and the intellectual. LILA is full of the moral battles that are going on between these two...and I doubt if the MoQ would agree to there being only one 'best behaviour of government' as your question appears to imply. Imho. Hoping you are all well. Kind regards Andre Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
