Hi Andre
19 Dec. u wrote:
> Can I string some things together here, with your input, and suggest
> that what follows then is that Quality has inorganic PoV's which
> support organic PoV's ('life'),
A strange phrase about Quality HAVING having inorganic PoV... etc.
Why not simply: "The inorganic level supports the organic (or bio.)
level... etc." We ought to know by now that it is patterns of value. OK
just old nagging me.
> it is the emergence at the social level that 'life' becomes
> 'transformed' into 'consciousness' and that, at the intellectual level,
> which emerged from the social PoV's 'life' becomes self-consciousness?
Nothing particular happens between biology and society (or between
any other two levels) this is Pirsig's unsavory "how the MOQ encases
SOM, about "the social level existing in the mental world ..etc"). Listen.
Biological brain facilitated storing, retrieval and logical manipulation of
earlier experience (AKA "thinking" or intelligence) this capability was
(still is) used by animals in their survival schemes. Then social level
adapted this prowess for own purposes and with language "thinking"
was enhanced a millionfold. In its time the 4th level inherited "thinking"
- and here is the clue - by intellects S/O matrix thinking or intelligence
became something subjective going on in a mental realm different
from the material realm. Nowhere in the MOQ does "self-
consciousness appear.
> My take on this would then be to suggest that Quality is unpatterned
> consciousness (morality), the unpatterned aesthetic continuum, and
> that all patterned i.e.static expressions of this consciousness are
> experienced as 'self' consciousness because still dominated by SOM.
Christ, you really manage to complicate something infinitely simple.
> ( Doesn't Pirsig say somewhere (in the LC I think, that 'awareness'
> and 'consciousness' are better to be avoided and simply be 'reduced'
> to an intellectual PoV?). If this is so, it appears to reinforce
> your SOL thesis.
After Pirsig's original "goof" of intellect = mind he said (to Anthony)
that the term "mind" better be avoided. If you find anything about
consciousness or self - ditto notify me. And moreover "consciousness
as intellect" does NOT reinforce the SOL which says that intellect (the
level) created the distinction between the conscious subject and the
objective reality. Again intellect is the VALUE of the subject/object
distinction, while intellect-as-consciousness is SOM!, SOM and SOM
again!!!
Thank you for receiving my spoon feeding and thanking me in
addition. You - Andre - seem on the verge of understanding the MOQ,
but then you lapse back into the SOM pit. But I know, it is the
Intelligence-intellect fallacy that haunts most of this site.
Bodvar
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