<!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:"MS Mincho";
panose-1:2 2 6 9 4 2 5 8 3 4;
mso-font-alt:"ＭＳ 明朝";
mso-font-charset:128;
mso-generic-font-family:modern;
mso-font-pitch:fixed;
mso-font-signature:-1610612033 1757936891 16 0 131231 0;}
@font-face
{font-family:"\...@ms Mincho";
panose-1:2 2 6 9 4 2 5 8 3 4;
mso-font-charset:128;
mso-generic-font-family:modern;
mso-font-pitch:fixed;
mso-font-signature:-1610612033 1757936891 16 0 131231 0;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{mso-style-parent:"";
margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
mso-pagination:widow-orphan;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-fareast-font-family:"MS Mincho";}
pre
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
mso-pagination:widow-orphan;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New";
mso-fareast-font-family:"MS Mincho";}
@page Section1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in;
mso-header-margin:.5in;
mso-footer-margin:.5in;
mso-paper-source:0;}
div.Section1
{page:Section1;}
-->
Hello Folks,
I read ZMM 18 months ago and Lila last year. I have been lurking on this site
for about
six months. I meet regularly with a group
of friends to discuss philosophy and religion and nothing has affected our
discussions
and lives as much as ZMM and Lila. I
have been on a journey and a search for understanding most of my life, but
every path found its conclusion in frustration until now.
I posted a brief response to the “Why isn't the hot stove
obvious?” discussion. Since you guys don’t know me, I figured I
would do a brief intro (above) and provide a more detailed response below.
Mary Wrote:
>If all is Quality, why can't we see it coming? What do we lack in order to
>predict the ultimate outcome or goal of Quality? At the various levels, why
>do we not universally agree on what the highest Quality outcome would be?
>Why, for example, has there been recent disagreement here surrounding the
>best behavior of government? Should we not be able to all equally discern
>this? Shouldn't recognition of Quality at all levels be as intuitive as the
>hot stove?
The way I have it organized in my mind:
What is Quality? As I
see it, all is not Quality, but Quality is the moving force of organization
itself.
It is the “energy of organization” it is
evolution moving things to the “bestest” possible set of “Static Patterns”. I
see the opposite of “Quality” to be “Chaos”. Static Patterns that have
survived the test
of time of evolution only represents the best “Static Quality”. That
said, static quality is an illusion as everything is affected by Dynamic
Quality. Dynamic Quality is change itself,
it is different, it is the enemy of Static Quality. Dynamic Quality is the
“value event” and every
event affects Static Quality. The
question is, can the Static Pattern survive the event caused by Dynamic
Quality? On the
other hand, without Dynamic Quality, eventually all Static Patterns will fail,
IMO. The levels are simply Static Patterns
that have survived over the time of evolution. Levels/Patterns: Inorganic,
Biological, Social,
Intellectual all have “memory”.
The beauty of MoQ, to me, is that you can evaluate
everything to see from which level a response, argument, item, etc. comes
from. The biological level is responsible for such
things as breathing, sex, pain, anything to sustain life. Therefore, the hot
stove example is simply
looking at a Static Pattern of “Quality” that is from the biological level, but
it does not represent change. Sitting on
the hot stove was an event that was handled by an older static pattern that is
still with us at the biological level. I
think the significance of this was that Pirsig realized that we do not
intellectualize
everything in order to respond and thus, he began to realize the problem in ZMM
and began to see the levels of MoQ.
So, what is Quality and why can we not see it coming? IMO, Quality is not what
we perceive it to
be, but what lasts over the test of time. Quality itself is organization of
“energy”.
We also have to realize is that our actions are dynamic and create value events
that affect Static Quality. Our actions
may be thwarted by static patterns that are already in place, but they may lead
to changes in static patterns. I think
the best that MoQ can do is to look at every situation and evaluate it from the
perspective of each level by using these types of questions. What is the
goal/desire? At what level does this goal/desire reside? Are there level
struggles going on? Does the solution require actions at a single
level or multiple levels? What are the
roots of my desires for this goal and are they level based? What can this tell
us? I think it can tell us where to form our attacks
in our battles to reach “Quality” goals.
That said, I think the intellectual level always thinks it is superior,
but it has to understand that it was built on top of the other levels. To
achieve quality goals, the solution cannot
destroy the other levels or it will destroy itself.
Here is an example
that of what I am talking about that evaluates a problem that covers multiple
levels:
“Breast Cancer”
Goal/Desire: The desire is to
reduce breast cancer and find a cure.
At what level does this goal/desire
reside? Biological level
Are there level struggles going on?
This problem is a struggle
between static biological patterns and dynamic biological patterns i.e. Breast
cells being taken over by cancer cells
The cure is a
struggle between intellectual patterns and biological patterns i.e.
Doctors/Scientist searching for a cure to kill the cancer cell prevents
cancer
cells.
Scientists use
either biological patterns to attack biological patterns or go to a lower level…
inorganic patterns to attack biological patterns.
Obtaining funding
for the research is an intellectual struggling with social.
Competing research
firms can create intellectual against intellectual.
Convincing women
to get mammograms or treatment is intellectual struggle with social.
What if a cure
could be found in stem cell research? This
is another struggle between the intellectual level and social level.
Does the solution require actions at a single level or multiple
levels? The solution requires actions
at multiple levels
Pirsig uses this technique over and over in Lila to find the
faults in the system.
Anyway, there is a lot of fodder here I am sure, but is the
way I have it in my mind.
If anyone is
interested, I have a PowerPoint presentation that I put together that depicts my
views in a visual way. I include “Quality vs. Chaos”, Static Quality and Dynamic
Quality. Static Quality Struggles. Visual version of the ZMM “train of
knowledge”. A Lila enhanced visual version of the “train
of knowledge”. I would like some folks
to view it. I am sure it will create
some interesting discussions.
Regards,
Bruce Underwood
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222986/direct/01/
Moq_Discuss mailing list
Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
Archives:
http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
