On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 10:24 PM, Krimel <[email protected]> wrote: >> Dan: >> This is all true. So. Do you believe that reality as you understand it >> to be is something solid and separate from you as an individual? >> >> [Krimel] >> "Reality as I understand it" is a set of concepts I have acquire over the >> course of a lifetime of "being in the world". It _is_ me and I _am_ it. My >> conceptual self changes movement to moment as I assimilate new experience >> or accommodate my conceptual self to account for new experiences. >> >> Do you really believe there is nothing separate from yourself? > > [Dan] > If the world is you and you are it, then why the question? > > [Krimel] > I think you misunderstand. "Reality as I understand it" is almost certainly > not all there is to "Reality". My understanding arises from the interaction > of my social and biological patterns with a whole bunch of inorganic > patterns that at least for the most part seem utterly apart from me.
Dan: If I understood I wouldn't bother. If reality as you understand it isn't all there is, what else is there? My understanding seems to arise from culture, a mixture of social and intellectual patterns of value. Biologically, I know very little intellectually. My body does though. I cut it and it knows to heal. I break it and it knows to mend. Krimel: I think > James' distinction between precepts and concepts sums it up nicely. I > recommend to your attention his chapters on the matter in Some Problems of > Philosophy, especially Chapters 4, 5 and 6. Dan: We're talking past each other. I see a lot of James in Pirsig's work. But percepts and concepts don't correlate to Dynamic and static quality. I think James is discussing biological level function, how we form memories and construct a sense of self. >Krimel: > I repeat my question because I am curious: Do you really believe there is > nothing separate from yourself? Dan: Intellectually, I know that when I look at the world, I'm encountering a mental representation, not the world itself. When I see the light of the day star, intellectually I know I'm not really seeing the light of the day star... I'm seeing a mental representation of the light. The warmth I feel on my skin isn't really warmth on my skin. I know intellectually that it's a mental representation of warmth on my skin that I'm feeling. When I realized that the intense pain I felt in my left leg during extending sittings corresponded not to my left leg but to the part of the brain controlling the internal dialogue, I just sat through it. The pain was real. And as the internal dialogue faded gradually away so did it. So. If everything I see, hear, feel, smell, taste, and think about are mental representations, what is it that I'm supposed to be separate from? Dan Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
