Hi Steve, Glad you asked. I think I've already said this in previous posts today, but I am disturbed by Pirsig's definition of the Intellectual level. He seems to equate it with abstract thinking in a letter he wrote to somebody (Turner?) which I, admittedly, have not read in its entirety.
What? The Intellectual level is not the mechanistic level of achieving the ability to engage in abstract thought. Abstract thinking has been around for millennia. What distinguishes the Intellectual level for me is that is _values_ questioning assumptions, beliefs, or whatever you wish something to be. In particular, it values rising above the ego to seek fundamental truths, even if they prove the seeker wrong. Only by valuing truth above ego can humanity hope to even notice that Quality exists. - Mary -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Steven Peterson Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 8:34 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [MD] Metaphysics Hi Mary, Mary: > I have to join with Bo on this. I really think Pirsig said some things he > didn't believe himself sometimes in order to make the MoQ more palatable to > academics, etc. Steve: Wow. This is quite an accusation. In what partcular instances do you see Pirsig as lying about what he really thinks? How do you go about deciding when Pirsig actually means what he says and when he does not to untangle the "true MOQ"? I can't see that he would have anything to gain in lieing about the MOQ. Why would he lie to get the MOQ accepted when what would be accepted was not the "true MOQ" (that only Bo gets) but merely a shadow of the "true MOQ"? What would be gained in getting a false MOQ accepted? Mary: >In places it sounds almost like he is second-guessing > himself, especially when talking about how he shouldn't be trying to create > a metaphysics at all of something so large as to be diminished by its own > creation. For me, words and language are poor tools to use for explaining > DQ - and Pirsig knew it - even apologized for it. Steve: There is a necessary tension or irony in talking about something that he states that by definition is undefinable as in the opening of the Tao Te Ching: "The Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao." Yet we all know what quality is, and Pirsig goes on to describe quality at length in his books. He cautions that none of these descriptions of Quality is to be thought of as the true essence of Quality. They are all fingers pointing to the moon. I don't see what this issue has to do with your accusation. Best, Steve Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
