[Arlo] Well like I said, operating from a certain set of contingent premises is pretty much unavoidable. I guess for me the issue is with the notion of "faith". I see it differently, Krimel. "Faith" is held in spite of contrary evidence. "Contingence" (not to hijack Ian's word here) is held, well, contingent on a constant re-evaluation with consistency in experience. I do not have "faith" that when I turn on the spigot water will flow into my sink. I hold that in contingency, and if I see a broken pipe in my basement, I will no longer expect water out of my spigot*.
[Krimel] I think holding a belief despite contrary evidence is what I would call psychosis. I am not sure most "people of faith" really would cling to their faith despite clear evidence to the contrary. I think for me at least faith is a conscious decision to take a position when there is no way to invoke evidence to the contrary. I accept, purely as a matter of faith that there exists an external world populated with other minds. I am not a solipsist. I have faith in my anti-solipsism. I have faith that my senses are not meant to deceive me... Stuff like that... [Krimel] Having said that, I do find it distressing when Mark and Platt and to a certain extent Marsha use this distinction of degree to claim no difference at all. [Arlo] I get the sense that Marsha disparages "science" as part of a larger criticizing of both "intellect" and "society" in the face of immediate, personal experience, and on that note I have much sympathy for her position. Platt, of course, is simply beating the anti-intellectual drums of right-wing ideology. Mark I feel is somehow personally slighted by Pirsig's "anti-theistic" comment and is trying to validate theism within this context, and is simply following the same path as other pissed-off theists before him. And now that I've psycho-analyzed them, I think its time for an ale. [Krimel] While we are psychoanalyzing, I would say Marsha is just confused, Platt thinks that being anti-intellectual (read, intentionally stupid) is a virtue. Mark seems to me to be someone who has reached a stage in his professional career where he needs to reexamine the underlying assumptions he has been taking for granted. I suspect that he sees people around him acting blindly on these assumptions and he has begun to find this disturbing. I would say that if you were going to pick a set of assumptions blindly you could do way worse that science. But I don't think he quite gets that not everyone who proceeds from those assumptions does so blindly. Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
