The so-called Pythagoreans, who were the first to take up mathematics, not only
advanced this subject, but saturated with it, they fancied that the principles
of mathematics were the principles of all things. —Aristotle , Metaphysics 1-5
, cc. 350 BC
Ron said:
This is where Bo would say that the distinction between intelligence and
intellect is the philosophical belief that the principles of mathematics are
the principles of all things.
dmb says:
The idea that reality can be described in terms of mathematics extends from the
Pythagoreans to Einstein but there is a very important difference that gets
washed out when we project our sense of what physical equations can do
backwards in time. The Pythagoreans were mystics. It was a kind of Orpheus
cult. Their sense of what it meant for mathematics to be the principle of all
things was basically a musical idea. The vibrating strings of a musical
instrument (the lyre, distant ancestor of the guitar, sitar and harp) could be
described mathematically and a "science" of harmony grew out of that discovery.
This was added to a belief that said, "As above, so below". The heavens were
conceived as a series of concentric crystalline spheres, like giant nested
glass balls in which the stars were embedded. As these spheres revolved, it was
supposed, the friction produced an particular note on the musical scale. Taken
all together, the universe itself sang in perfect harmony. By listening to
music here on earth, they thought, we are brought into harmony with the whole
cosmos. The idea here, basically, is that musicians tune your soul and
otherwise bring you into accord with reality. Like the use of astronomy and
math to produce temples of worship in Egypt and Babylon, this was a very axial
thing to do. They certainly were capable of manipulating abstract symbols in a
skillful way, but the purpose was essentially religious or spiritual. Oh, I
should say that according to the myth of Orpheus, who was the son of Apollo and
the Muse of epic poetry, was held to be the greatest musician who ever lived.
He sang songs about the genealogy of the gods and it was said that the beauty
of his music was so compelling that rivers would change their course in order
to be nearer, trees would uproot themselves to get closer and even the wildest
animals would calmly gather to listen. And it is my own personal belief that
this crucial historical moment also gave birth to the two drink minimum. And
don't forget to tip your server.
Ron said:
This is a perfect illustration to my point. It was with the Pythagoreans that
the concept of "substance" emerged. I think RMP's real SOM bogeyman is the
Pythagoreans developing into Neopythagoreanism.
dmb says:
Plato was, among other things, synthesizing the work of a whole range of
pre-Socratic philosophers including the cosmologists. You can see the notion of
substance coming from these cosmologists. The old idea that our world is
composed of four elements (earth, water, air and fire) is a kind of synthesis
of the various pre-Socratic positions. But there again, these elements were not
conceived as merely physical as we might today but rather as spiritual forces.
Later, these two streams would come together to produce the groovy sounds of
Earth, Wind and Fire, who would go on to win ten grammies and a place in the
rock and roll hall of fame and the Hollywood walk of fame whereas Orpheus was
only raised to the level of a divinity and was given his own constellation.
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