Hi Bruce, I think that is precisely JC's point ... that the MoQ doesn't have to consider itself any of these things
(and incidentally "non-theist" is the label I too adopt, if pushed - religious faith can be a problem, but god is a non-issue) Regards Ian On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 9:56 PM, Bruce Underwood <[email protected]> wrote: > > Why does the MoQ have to consider itself theistic, atheistic or > ant-theistic? I do not consider myself to be against theism nor do I > consider myself to be for theism. If I have to label it in terms close to > that, I would say that I am a non-theist. However, I totally believe that > there is "Quality" without form that does create order where there would > naturally be disorder. There is, IMO, purpose and direction in Quality. > > Bruce > > ---------------------------------------- >> Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 14:42:40 -0500 >> From: [email protected] >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [MD] The MoQ can't be atheistic >> >> Hi All, >> * >> * >> Ramakrishna used to ask people who came to him for instruction, do prefer to >> think about God with form or without form? >> >> I suggest theism is thinking of God with form, the Tao and DQ is God >> thinking of God without form. If so, the MOQ is not just atheistic but >> anti-theistic. >> >> Best, >> Steve >> >> >>>From the Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna >> >> *"Sri Ramakrishna to M:* "How are you getting along with your meditation >> nowadays? What aspect of God appeals to your mind — with form or without >> form?" >> >> >> *M:* "Sir, now I can't fix my mind on God with form. On the other hand, I >> can't concentrate steadily on God without form." >> >> >> *Sri Ramakrishna:* "Now you see that the mind cannot be fixed, all of a >> sudden, on the formless aspect of God. It is wise to think of God with form >> during the primary stages." >> >> >> *M:* "Do you mean to suggest that one should meditate on clay images?" >> >> >> *Sri Ramakrishna:* "Why clay? These images are the embodiments of >> Consciousness." >> >> >> *M:* "Even so, one must think of hands, feet, and the other parts of the >> body. But again, I realize that the mind cannot be concentrated unless one >> meditates, in the beginning, on God with form. You have told me so. Well, >> God can easily assume different forms. May one meditate on the form of one's >> own mother?" >> >> >> *Sri Ramakrishna:* "Yes, the mother should be adored. She is indeed an >> embodiment of Brahman." >> >> >> M. sat in silence. After a few minutes he asked Sri Ramakrishna: "What does >> one feel while thinking of God without form? Isn't it possible to describe >> it?" After some reflection, Sri Ramakrishna said, "Do you know what it is >> like?" He remained silent a moment and then said a few words to M. about >> one's experiences at the time of the vision of God with and without form. >> >> >> *Sri Ramakrishna:* "You see, one must practise spiritual discipline to >> understand this correctly. Suppose there are treasures in a room. If you >> want to see them and lay hold of them, you must take the trouble to get the >> key and unlock the door. After that you must take the treasures out. But >> suppose the room is locked, and standing outside the door you say to >> yourself: 'Here I have opened the door. Now I have broken the lock of the >> chest. Now I have taken out the treasure.' Such brooding near the door will >> not enable you to achieve anything. >> >> >> "You must practise discipline. >> >> >> "The jnanis think of God without form. They don't accept the Divine >> Incarnation. Praising Sri Krishna, Arjuna said, 'Thou art Brahman Absolute.' >> Sri Krishna replied, 'Follow Me, and you will know whether or not I am >> Brahman Absolute.' So saying, Sri Krishna led Arjuna to a certain place and >> asked him what he saw there. 'I see a huge tree,' said Arjuna, 'and on it I >> notice fruits hanging like clusters of blackberries.' Then Krishna said to >> Arjuna, 'Come nearer and you will find that these are not clusters of >> blackberries, but clusters of innumerable Krishnas like Me, hanging from the >> tree.' In other words, Divine Incarnations without number appear and >> disappear on the tree of the Absolute Brahman. >> >> >> "Kavirdas was strongly inclined to the formless God. At the mention of >> Krishna's name he would say: 'Why should I worship Him? The gopis would clap >> their hands while He performed a monkey dance.' (*With a smile*) But I >> accept God with form when I am in the company of people who believe in that >> ideal, and I also agree with those who believe in the formless God."" >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > _________________________________________________________________ > Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft’s powerful SPAM protection. > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469226/direct/01/ > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
