Mark, What you offer is in many ways akin to neoPlatonsim. Many of the neoplatonists were persicuted and killed during the rise of Christianity exactly for being "pagan" Hipatia of Alexandria is a case in point. I agree that the mythos of gods was indeed representative of the intellectual level, but you will have a most difficult time with Bo. I feel, it represents, the habit of the intellectual level of "taking off on a purpose of it's own" when it ceases to perform for the good of society and becomes an entity in and of itself. Which it clearly did. What Bo is after is the cultural definition of what we mean by "intellectual" in our society today. The common meaning of the term as a means to address our cultural crisis in Pragmatic terms. I think thats what Pirsig initially meant to imply also. But I think he employed it with that sort of understanding while Bodvar does not, he takes it as literal gospel applied to ultimate evolutional truths. Which is a very important distinction, thats why it's usually the newcomers to the discuss that are initially taken by Bodvars SOL, I was, when I first joined. Culturally we tend toward mechanistic ultimate explainations that have an end goal or direction at least...(that comfort aspect you so accurately pointed out) and it makes explainations like Bo's very attractive. but the notion of a value centered metaphysics means that your own personal values are what explains the goal or direction or purpose of your experience and consequently your "reality" and your own evolution and meaning. Bo does not see that intellect taking off on a purpose of it's own as a bad thing because it then neglects it's obligation to society biology and inoragnic qualities. Something the wise would deem unwise.
Thats why in his SOL interpretation, his "Q" level floats off, far away remote of social, biological and inorganic concerns, dwelling in the purely abstract. -Ron ----- Original Message ---- From: markhsmit <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Wed, February 17, 2010 1:06:47 AM Subject: [MD] The Intellectual Level of Quality, according to Mark OK, here I will, best I can, provide my interpretation of the Intellectual Level. That is the level described in MoQ which lies above the social. Please be kind. Imagine if you will, a realm (or level) where abstract thought has lost all ties with the subjects or objects that spawned it. It is abstract thought such that it is no longer tethered to the form or function of the human body. This is not hard to do since we all get lost in this dreaming. However, we are quickly brought down to earth by personal necessity and opinion. But imagine such a realm existing on its own forever free. This realm would would have the following precepts: (I asked Bo for three statements that describe the Q level, which he kindly provided, and here are mine) 1. The Intellectual level is free of all physical ties which define human existence at the level of matter, and is abstract thought alone. 2. The intellectual level is made up of concepts or subjects which interact through transactions, the currency of which are moral equivalents that are derived from the bank of Quality. These are investments which allow Quality to grow in value. 3. While this level is free from the physical, it interacts with humans and all other things (if animism bothers you, just ignore this), through metaphors and analogies. In this way pure abstract thought is delivered to the world of form. OK, so that is it in a nutshell. What I am about to write next may cause alarm, disappointment, denial, or complete loss of interest, due to personal opinions, but take this at face value as an opinion. What I have described above is an analogy of Valhalla (I choose this for my friend, Bo's, sake). Indeed, the Intellectual level was defined many years ago in multiple cultures. This was in the form of polytheism (which has now fallen into disrepute, especially when Constantine took over the Roman Empire). But, personal opinions aside, there is no doubt that the gods that lived in Valhalla all symbolized a virtue (negative or positive) of humanity. I will not go through the list. In this way, these gods are analogous to the high concepts which are transacted in the Intellectual Level. These concepts are delivered to us humans in the form of metaphors such as people or animals. But it is important not to take these metaphors literally but only as means of concept deliverance. In this day and age we believe that people worshiped these gods as people (and perhaps many did). But such worship missed the whole point, the metaphor became the object, not what the metaphor represented, which was Quality interacting with our world. These gods were just concepts of human ideals and shortcomings, all from the realm of abstract thought. Now I know many will think that I am bringing a high-minded philosophy down to the level of paganism. Rest assured, that is not what I am doing. If anything, I am bringing Paganism up to the level of MoQ. I honestly believe that man was no less intelligent back then, and the notion that history is the development of man's intelligence is self serving. This post is also not religious or attempting to be persuasive; it is simply an analogy. So, many will dismiss this post as irrelevant, but, hopefully some will consider the relationship between the Intellectual Level, and that which was provided by the polytheistic traditions of the past. There is no doubt that mythology plays a large part in our lives, Campbell has put this very well. The inner psyche of the human condition has definite structure. To dismiss it as some primitive appendage is missing the whole point. The point is that we are learning the high minded principles of Quality every day, whether they be personified as gods or delivered as logical concepts. All the best, Mark Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
