Matt said: Does not finding a need to use "preconceptual empirical reality" in my philosophy necessarily mean I'm rejecting radical empiricism?
DMB said: If you see no need to pick it up and decide there's no need to find a place for it in your conceptual arrangements, then yes, of course that means you reject it. Matt: I guess I just don't see it that way. This partly because I don't _identify_ radical empiricism with the phraseology of "preconceptual empirical reality" and various derivations. I identify "radical empiricism" more like you do sometimes, with "rejection of traditional empiricism." So, I don't reject radical empiricism because I take it's vocabulary to be aimed at getting around traditional empiricism (which is what you've thought you've needed to convince me of). However, being one vocabulary among many--one system of articulated philosophy among many--and not the only one that follows through on a rejection of traditional empiricism, I don't see why I need to pick up all the pieces of vocabulary of radical empiricism. It's like saying you reject a person because you don't except everything about them. I think it's wise if people set boundaries, and say, "Well, you did that one thing I don't like, but I'm not going to hate you for it. Because there's a lot else you got going for you." Relationships, I'm told, work better that way. Less chances of "losing faith" and then becoming a rabid "born again" of something else. DMB said: It seems odd to construe the concept's value in terms of your needs and your conceptual arrangements. You seem to be suggesting that it's a matter of personal preference, as if we can take it or leave it, depending on our interests and purposes. Matt: Really? Have you ever read James' Pragmatism? What is value if not relative to something you value it _for_? And what else am I supposed to value things for except relative to me? DMB said: This appeal to some hypothetical personal project that doesn't need Pirsig's central term does not fly, Mr Kundert. Matt: Well, see, you've obfuscated the issue, plopping down your own contentious interpretation of Quality in the middle of my philosophy, and saying I reject it. DMB said: Don't you realize how audacious to say you can find no use for Pirsig's main idea at MOQ.org? It wouldn't be so outrageous if you had a bunch of good reasons or something. But you don't care enough to even give her a good look. Matt: I was once audacious, not so much anymore.... But, I will grant you that, aside from the many, many (many) words I've dropped over the years here, and more recently at my website, I haven't been able to construct a systematic set of "good reasons" for my philosophical viewpoints. However, if people want a small, potted summary of my hypothetical personal project (that's hypothetically been at my site for 3 and a half years), one can go here: http://pirsigaffliction.blogspot.com/2006/05/introduction-to-pirsig.html I think it's actually shorter than most of my MD posts. I am, as I keeping saying, an amateur. If that means you need to ignore me for being a know-nothing, I suggest you start doing so. And, I suggest that you start to learn how to talk to amateurs. DMB said: If you're posting here at all, let alone for years, then your interest has already been demonstrated. Who spends time and energy on things they find useless or on things they don't care about? It just doesn't add up, Mr Kundert. I'm not buying it. Matt: Why do I post? Passing interest in topics that come up that I can spit out opinions on in not that long of a time, maybe. But mainly ego. I still feel the occasional need to defend my "reputation"--but as people forget about me, I will feel that less and less. As people stop talking to and about me, I will drift away (so if one is annoyed by me, listen up: I just gave you the secret key). Have you not noticed the decline in my posting? The decline in my involvement in people's conversations? My increasing desire to just "let things go"? I don't have time for long, protracted discussions. I don't have time to give the patient ear to really understand people the way they should be understood, in order to really "get them"--I'm in grad school, I read 500 pages and write a systematically connected 3,000 words every week (which, if you haven't tried, is a significant amount of time/energy). And this work is _not_ directed to any of the typical concerns of moq.org. I'm glad your work dovetails all the time with moq.org and Pirsig. That must make it easier. Matt _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID27925::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:032010_1 Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
