Hi Marsha, My thoughts on improving the social good? Pretty simple, really. People pay attention and think. Intellectual analysis of social patterns is about the best hope I can see for humanity.
In practical terms? Kill your tv. Which you and I have already done, eh Marsha? Thanks for asking. John C. On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 10:40 PM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hi John, > > Anybody ask you lately about your thoughts on improving and preserving > the social good? I'll ask. John, what are your thoughts on improving and > preserving the social good? > > > Marsha > > > > > On May 25, 2010, at 12:07 AM, John Carl wrote: > > > Ron, Bo and Mary, > > > > Ron's quote below seems so simple, so profound and so easy to understand > > that the only possible reason I can guess for others missing it is the > > oldest bugaboo in existence - group task avoidance. > > > > This group doesn't WANT to use the MoQ for its intended purpose of > > "dynamically improving and preserving good social patterns" because > people > > in the group are too attached to their particular pet social patterns. > And > > dying to one's attachments involves sacrifice. > > > > It's less painful to argue endlessly. > > > > DQ can be painful. > > > > Deal with it. > > > > John > > > > On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 8:17 PM, X Acto <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Ron: > >> Lila ch.24 > >> "What is the purpose of all this intellectual knowledge? the metaphysics > of > >> Quality answers," > >> the fundemental purpose of knowledge is to dynamically improve and > >> preserve society." > >> > >> "Intellect can support static patterns of society without fear of > >> domination by carefully > >> distinguishing those moral issues that are social-biological from those > >> that are intellectual-social > >> and making sure there is no encroachment either way." > >> > >> "whats good is freedom from domination by any static pattern." > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Ron, I mean, I didn't make up the rules - Pirsig did. He clearly > >>> defined the four levels as a hierarchy of values/morals. He says each > >>> successive level originated in the one below. He explains how they are > >>> all composed of static patterns of value - latched in response to > >>> Dynamic Quality - yet are all in a state of continual tension with each > >>> other. I don't mean to be pedantic here, but to answer the question we > >>> need to be starting out on the same page and with all the too-ing and > >>> fro-ing in the forum, I'm not sure that we are. Are these all the > >>> basic premises we have? There's one more, but to my surprise I got > >>> flack for saying it a while back. This puzzles me, so if someone would > >>> like to argue it out, we could start here. Pirsig said the levels are > >>> discrete sets of patterns of value that took off on a purpose of their > >>> own from their parent. I think this is pretty clear from the > >>> literature, but someone, and sorry, but I don't remember who, took > >>> issue with this. > >> > >> Ron: > >> It all depends on how you interpret it, he says that evolution is a high > >> quality > >> idea, he says that we may understand experience abit better if we broke > >> it down into four levels rather than two. If you interpet the levels in > >> terms > >> of objective existant fundemental constituants of reality which emerge > >> out of each other, then your understanding is going to be a bit > different > >> than what others believe Pirsig is saying. > >> > >> Pirsig states that the levels, morally take off on their own, but , > >> it is useful and grounding to understand the point of departure > >> and basic purposes " but it doesent mean children should assassinate > >> their parents and it doesent mean intellectuals have to assassinate > >> society." the point is that they have drifted and gotten lost. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Moq_Discuss mailing list > >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > >> Archives: > >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > >> http://moq.org/md/archives.html > >> > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > > Archives: > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > > > > ___ > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
