John to Bodvar (in reply to Ron):
I think from this we can conclude that it's far more appropriate and
accurate then to say on every level of being, the higher toys with and
is creative of the lower. Thus the top-down approach is superior to the
idea that inorganic clumps randomly form life, that life just happens to
create social patterns and out of social patterns, objective ideas
magically appear out of a bunch of random words thrown around by social
patterns
Andre:
Agree John, all this 'dominating lower level stuff' has its context.
Sometimes it dominates, sometimes it guides and sometimes it plays with
the toys given in a much more creative way. Bodvar's interpretation is
very straight and almost deterministic! Not at all Mr. Pirsig's way.
The 'upper level' (we know that the upper is not really 'upper') has
more freedom... that is all. And the 'upperest' level... Bodvar
constrains by reducing it to only S/O capability... sad, sad, sad.
What Mr. Pirsig meant by 'the skillfill manipulation of symbols that
have no particular corresponding ...' is indeed all that needs to be
said about the intellectual level. The rest is pure con[coc]tion on the
part of those who created it.
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