Hello everyone On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 7:56 PM, Mary <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Platt & Bo, > >> [dmb said] >> > I mean, the analytic knife has to cut somewhere so that even the >> DQ/sq >> > distinction counts as a pair of opposites.
"Dynamic Quality is value and thus is very easily distinguished. When one creates a word for it and tries to distinguish this word from other words in a set of static intellectual patterns, confusion results. But the confusion is caused by the static patterns that seek to subordinate Dynamic Quality to themselves." [Robert Pirsig, LILA'S CHILD] Dan: I suspect that to count "it" as a pair of opposites with static quality is to subordinate Dynamic Quality. So let me ask: what exactly is a DQ/sq distinction? and how does it count as a pair of opposites? do you have examples? >> > [Bo said] >> The great metaphysical revolution took place when everything became >> Quality. Thus the DQ/SQ division is not anything like the S/O split >> (mind you: the analytical knife always cuts S/O) but an internal >> arrangement - the static levels are value levels - not like the S and O >> that are worlds apart. >> > [Platt said] >> >> If I understand correctly, you're saying that dualistic thinking based >> on >> divisions and "cuts" is SOM. The MOQ revolution is the transcendence of >> dualistic thinking by value understanding, not another SOM >> (intellectual) >> theory. >> >> In other words, the MOQ perspective reveals a world not of observers >> and >> observed as seen from the dualistic viewpoint, but a world of values.. >> >> In the value world, distinctions are made on a vertical/horizontal axis >> whereby >> the vertical axis is the evolutionary value hierarchy and the >> horizontal axis >> is a high-low value spectrum. In addition, there's a creative force of >> dynamic >> value. >> >> In this way, the MOQ releases us from an illusory dualistic reality to >> a value- >> experience reality where one does not automatically see and say, >> "That's a >> small dog, or a brown and white dog, or a mixed breed dog," but "That's >> a good >> dog," or better yet, simply "Ah, so." >> >> Am I on target? >> > [Mary Replies] > I think you are, Platt. The so-called Dq/Sq split is not really a split for > us at all since we cannot perceive DQ. Dan: We perceive Dynamic Quality all the time. And no, Platt isn't on target. Not even in the ballpark. Thank you, Dan In the instant we do it has already > become SQ, so there is no perceived split and no choice has been made. It > just is. The analytical knife comes into play after the SQ has been > perceived, at which point Pirsig is saying that the S/O split we choose to > make is just that - a division we have chosen. He tries to persuade us that > there is another choice - perception as patterns of value. > > The S/O split devalues Quality, placing recognition of Quality as a lower > form of perception than the recognition of the Subjects and Objects as > entities in and of themselves. Pirsig points out that this is wrong, and > has lead to our fundamental confusion on the whole subject. When what is > Quality is demoted to a subjective attribute then morals are relative, > debatable, and no consistent 'opinion' can be hoped for. When morals and > value are demoted to the status of attribute, then the invention of the > thermonuclear bomb had only 'relative' moral implications. There was never > a good reason not to do it. If all the world is subjects and objects, then > the discovery of any new 'object' is always "the good" since we live in a > world where nothing has higher status than subjects contemplating objects. > That's all there is. It is only after the fact that we could debate the > moral value of doing science in that direction, and this debate was weak > from the start since it could only deal with a subjective, relative > morality, not a universal one. > > Best, > Mary > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
