It's a conventional explanation, of course...
On Aug 28, 2010, at 5:28 AM, MarshaV wrote: > > Greetings Adrian and Magnus, > > I'd also like to mention something that I heard from Dennett or Dawkins about > having a prejudice towards change in a timeframe that is readily > experienced by humans. Change may happen at speeds too fast for humans > to experience, or too slow for humans to experience. What might seem > as not changing may just be a case of change too slow for us too experience. > > Just something to consider. > > Marsha > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 28, 2010, at 3:10 AM, Magnus Berg wrote: > >> Hi Ade >> >> First, never mind Frank. He's literally not for real and has a very peculiar >> sense of humor, just ignore him if he doesn't make sense, he seldom does. >> >> [email protected] wrote: >>> My name is Adrian, and i should like to ask a question. >>> >>> >>> Robert Pirsig says in Lila that static patterns are migrating toward >>> Dynamic Quality. >>> I think i've got that right. >>> He also says that static patterns latch and are stable. >>> >>> >>> My question is how can patterns be stable and yet migrate toward Dynamic >>> Quality at the same time? >>> >>> >>> Some patterns seem to be too latched and stable and can not change. So they >>> are bad at being able to change. >>> And yet others must be good at being able to change so they can migrate >>> toward Dynamic Quality as Robert Pirsig says in Lila. >>> >>> >>> How is this possible? >>> >>> >>> Is this a new question or does Robert Pirsig give an answer somewhere? >> >> It's not a completely new question, but I'm actually not sure it has been >> discussed here. I have thought about it though, very pragmatically I should >> add. Also, you might have noticed that many here on MD only see static >> patterns, and the levels, as some theoretical-only division of the world we >> see around us, so, for them, your question is actually not interesting, or >> even possible to ponder. They think, what happens, just happens, or using >> Krimel's words "Shit happens". >> >> However, since you did ask the question, I'll assume you'd like a more >> direct answer, and mine goes something like: >> >> One example is viruses. They are stable enough to be able to spread the same >> infection over more or less the whole world over a season. However, it's >> also dynamic enough to change into something else, if stopped by a new >> antibiotics. >> >> But that didn't perhaps answer your question: *How* is it possible? >> >> Then I have another example for you. It's been discussed here a few months >> ago if you want to search for the thread. It's about what happens when the >> inorganic level have reached the end of its possibilities. >> >> As you know, the inorganic level is about physics and chemistry. I've even >> suggested to make chemistry into a level of its own, but that's not >> important here. Anyway, on the young earth, there was nothing what we now >> call life, just a big ocean in which chemistry did its deed. Chemistry is >> pretty static, because what it can do is very statically decided by the laws >> of chemistry. For example, if an O atom meets a pair of bonded H atoms (H2), >> then it immediately unbonds the H2 molecule and bind both H to the O atom, >> making water (H2O). The H atoms snaps into place on the top of the O forming >> a Mickey Mouse molecule. The laws of chemistry can do lots of other things, >> especially with the C atom with which it can build long chains containing >> both carbon, hydrogen, oxygen and other atoms. And every time a chemical >> experience/event happen, the result is dictated by the laws of chemistry and >> the atoms involved snaps into their predetermined place. Sometimes, when two >> of these larg e > molecules meet, they can combine chemically into an even larger molecule and > snaps into another shape, or the don't attract eachother chemically in which > case they simply bounce apart again. >> >> However, sometimes when such large molecules meet, they happen to fit into >> eachother's shape like hand and glove and if they're really lucky, they even >> meet in the right direction so the hand fits in the glove. If that happens, >> two large molecules have bonded without the help of the laws of chemistry. >> The bond is much weaker than a chemical bond, but just because it *is* >> weaker, it's also more dynamic. It can let go of that bond if it "wants" to. >> I'd even say this is the precursor to what we today call "free will". >> >> Some of these fitting molecules found another molecule that also fit, and >> some even became so large and complex it could build stuff using other >> molecules in its vicinity. One day, it was able to build a copy of itself, >> and the rest is, as we say, history. The history of life to be specific. >> >> I claim that these shape fitting molecules are using biological value, i.e. >> it's the basis of the biological level and is the first step out of the >> static inorganic level into a completely new level. The process also gives a >> very good insight into what constitutes a new level, why they are discrete >> and how the level dependency really work, and not just a theoretical >> buzzword. >> >> And to connect this with Pirsig, he has said that taste and smell are clear >> cut biological value/experiences. And this shape fitting process is exactly >> how smell works. So, for me, the case is pretty closed. >> >> Magnus >> >> >> >> >> >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org/md/archives.html > > > > ___ > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html ___ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
