On Sep 12, 2010, at 5:00 PM, Andre Broersen wrote: > dmb to Marsha: > > But they did. And so it's obviously NOT impossible. We are not hopelessly > trapped inside SOM or forever doomed to reify all our concepts. The patient > is not identical to his disease. If the patient is inherently diseased or if > the defect defines the intellect, then Pirsig's aim of expanding and > improving rationality would fail before it even got started. Your view not > only dismisses the MOQ's solution, you've ruled it out as impossible in > principle. To say this undermines Pirsig's work is actually quite an > understatement, unless one uses "undermine" in the original military sense, > as part of a siege. > > Andre: > Thank you for this dmb, it is nice to feel (also intellectually!) that I am > not alone in this. I must be honest and say that I get tears in my eyes > sometimes (in utter desperation), when also in conversation with Bodvar, it > was about the raping (I have no other word for it) of Mr. Pirsig's ideas in > his two books and subsequent appearances on dvd, tape and papers. > > The seemingly total misapprehension of what the man is on about. > > And then, having the audacity to use one's own preconceived ideas to > interpret ZMM and LILA and then, based on these self same ideas, to criticize > the man, is very disheartening to say the least. > > Empty the cup before you start on anything new. There are some on this list > who mix their already filled cup with MOQ stuff. You cannot do this. It leads > to misapprehensions and blaming Mr. Pirsig for things he is NOT responsible > for. You have to take a fresh approach. This takes guts. This means throwing > away loads of static patterns.It means uncertainty, it means wobbling, it > means throwing yourself in the deep end of experience...it means complete > honesty with yourself. This is some bastard of a confrontation! As John > mentioned some time ago: metaphysics is not for sissies. Well, certainly the > MOQ is not.......... and at the same time it is. It is home. > > Design you cup-MOQ and throw all the past SOM constructed entities therein > and see for yourself what is left after the sifting. As I mentioned before, > this is what I had hoped this discuss would be about. I am truly glad that > some people are listening and responding.
Marsha: What's left is unpatterned experience and patterned experience, a very valuable experienced understanding. ___ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
