Hi Adrie, I received the copy... many thanks, Dan
On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 3:00 AM, ADRIE KINTZIGER <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi, Dan, I will drop a copy in your mailbox.Hope you like it, superb > material in it. > sorry for the condensed mail (this previous post , but my time was very > short) > greetzz, Adrie > > 2010/10/18 Dan Glover <[email protected]> > >> Hello everyone >> >> On Sun, Oct 17, 2010 at 3:44 PM, ADRIE KINTZIGER <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> > Hi, Dan, in reflection of our last conversation i took the effort >> > >> > to re-read some of huxley's Perennial, to tune in on some things we >> > >> > spoke of, and thing you coined in the following posts >> > Made a little comment for you, if you like the perennial to have, i >> > >> > have the pdf,if you like it for further investigation, it is a >> > >> > difficult work, very diffracted summarised, but filled with >> > >> > quality. >> >> Hi Adrie >> >> Yes, I would like a copy, please. >> >> > >> > >> > Aldous Huxley quoting Chuang Tzu in the perennial philosophy >> > >> > "Do not ask wether the principle is in this or that; it is in all >> > >> > beings.It is on this account that we apply to it the epithets of >> > >> > supreme, universal , total...It has ordained that all things should >> > be limited, but is itself unlimited, infinite. >> > As to what pertains to manifestation, the principle causes the >> > >> > succession of its phases, but is not this succession. >> > It is the author of causes and effects. It is the author of >> > >> > condensations and dissipations. >> > (Birth and death, changes of states), but is not itself >> > condensations and dissipations. All proceeds from it and is under >> > >> > its influence. >> > It is in all things, but is not identical with beings, >> > for it is neither differentiated nor limited"-end Chuang Tzu. >> > --------------------------------------------------------------- >> > >> > * does this ring a bell , Dan? it should.(adrie) >> > --------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Dan: >> >> Yes it does ring a bell, you're right. >> >> > >> > But it gets better if you take this in consideration, >> > Mr Pirsig in the copl' annotations. >> > >> > quote Pirsig(out of context) >> > "So It has really been a shock to see how close Bradley is to the >> > >> > MOQ. Both he and the MOQ are expressing what Aldous Huxley called >> > >> > "The Perennial Philosophy," which is perennial, I believe, because >> > >> > it happens to be true. Bradley has given an excellent description >> > >> > of what the MOQ calls Dynamic Quality and an excellent rational >> > >> > justification for its intellectual acceptance. It and the MOQ can >> > >> > be spliced together with no difficulty into a broader explanation >> > >> > of the same thing. >> > >> > *(It and the moq can be spliced together etc, incredibly >> > >> > important.)Adrie >> > >> > Chuang Tzu , in his this or that approach, is deviating from the >> > >> > negative negation, not this , not that-neti-neti, negative >> > >> > theology. >> > >> > Tzu is pointing out towards "this, that", "all off it at the same >> > >> > time" >> > dynamic quality, neither differentiated nor limited, >> > he is saying undefinable and infinite definable at the same time >> > >> > Pirsig did the same, deviating away from the negative negation. >> > Its all pointing out towards the given fact, that there is no need >> > >> > for a bridge between the East and West, because there is no gap >> > between them, not in the moq, in this context. >> >> Dan: >> Right... in the context of the MOQ there is no gap. >> >> Thank you, Adrie, for your thoughtful response, >> >> Dan >> >> >> > greetz, Adrie >> > >> > >> > >> > 2010/10/17 Dan Glover <[email protected]> >> > >> >> "What is the wisdom contained in the Upanishads? To answer, I must say >> >> something about the word Upanishad. The Sanskrit roots mean "sit down >> >> near" - Upanishadic wisdom is the sort that you might get by sitting >> >> down near your guru or spiritual master and engaging in a dialogue. It >> >> is quite distinct from the sort of wisdom that you might get by a >> >> detached pursuit of truth for truth's sake, and it is miles apart from >> >> the knowledge that you gain when your objective is a course grade or >> >> some other credential. >> >> >> >> "Moreover, the Upanishadic wisdom obtained through intense interaction >> >> with a guru is not quite the same as that attained simply by a careful >> >> reading of the Upanishads. An intellectual attempt that is not also a >> >> spiritual search can get no further than a surface hold on Upanishadic >> >> truth. Upanishadic wisdom is, in the last analysis, something that >> >> needs to be recognized nonconceptually. Hence, I cannot pretend to be >> >> transmitting Upanishadic wisdom to you. What I aim to do is simply >> >> explain the concepts that might provide the intellectual bearings for >> >> a spiritual search that eventually does away with the need for >> >> intellectual bearings." [Guidebook to ZMM] >> >> >> >> Dan comments: >> >> >> >> When a person's intellectual cup of tea is full to the brim, there is >> >> no room to form a Dynamic understanding that does away with the need >> >> for intellectual tea. All they have a taste for is intellectualism. >> >> They want to talk instead of listen... they want to shout out how much >> >> they know and how smart they are for knowing it... they tend to >> >> denigrate those who make any attempt to shock them out of the >> >> intellectual malaise in which they have unwittingly become ensnared. >> >> >> >> "To get an idea of Upanishadic truth, you need to have some >> >> understanding of two key concepts, "Brahman" and "Atman." The word >> >> Brahman comes from the Sanskrit root that means "to grow." The >> >> Upanishadic thinkers used this word to refer to the source of all >> >> beings, that from which everything in the universe grows. Brahman is >> >> thus a creator of sorts, but not like our Western God, who creates out >> >> of nothing a world that is distinct from God. Brahman grows into or >> >> becomes the many things of the world. At the same time, Brahman is not >> >> exhausted by the world of things but remains its own reality, which is >> >> true reality. One must not reduce Brahman to the many things that >> >> Brahman somehow becomes; rather, the many are to be reduced to >> >> Brahman. >> >> >> >> "The Upanishads are filled with stories in which spiritual masters >> >> enjoin spiritual seekers to peel away the layers of the universe in >> >> order to discover the subtle essence of all. This discovery, which is >> >> to be prized beyond all else, is not attainable through ordinary ways >> >> of knowing, for ordinary perceptual/conceptual knowledge is geared >> >> toward marking off qualities from other qualities and objects from >> >> other objects, while Brahman is neither a particular object nor a >> >> particular quality but that which underlies all objects and qualities, >> >> the unqualified ground, the Pure Object. No wonder, then, that it is >> >> spoken of as "that from which words and thought return without having >> >> attained it" (Taittiriya Upanishad, Ch. II, sect. 4, 1.1). >> >> Nonetheless, although concepts cannot get a hold on Brahman, they can >> >> be used !o point the way toward it. The Upanishads are full of >> >> analogies that are meant to provide a notion of Brahman (e.g., the >> >> salt that pervades the water and is in our awareness without itself >> >> being an object of direct perception). And lest seekers confuse the >> >> analogy with the reality, they are continually reminded that Brahman >> >> is neti, neti, "not this, not this." Analogies and negations do not >> >> attain the goal but they at least mark off a path from which seekers >> >> will eventually leap into transcendental consciousness." [ibid.] >> >> >> >> Dan comments: >> >> >> >> Dynamic Quality of the MOQ is not the same as the concept of God. It >> >> is Pure Quality or the Pure Object Brahman. We can point to it >> >> intellectually and via analogy but never gain a grasp on it >> >> conceptually. It is not this, not that. >> >> >> >> Thank you, >> >> >> >> Dan >> >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> >> Archives: >> >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> >> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > parser >> > Moq_Discuss mailing list >> > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> > Archives: >> > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> > http://moq.org/md/archives.html >> > >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >> > > > > -- > parser > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
