Good evening, Mark --
Hi Ham,
Thank you for your thoughtful reply and standing your ground
in an intelligent way.
I have you to thank for demonstrating the foolishness of dmb's insinuation
that great works of the past have been superseded by modern ideas and are
no longer of value to our culture. (As if philosophical postulates could be
overruled as "outdated" by the new elitists!) I could not have come up with
a more brilliant analogy to counter this notion.
[Mark said to dmb]:
...You would probably argue that Beethoven is not worth listening to
because he is old fashioned. ..Conservatism comes from seeing what
still works and sticking with it. Modernity is not all it is cracked up
to be.
It would also seem that you are part of the old guard here at MoQ.
If so, perhaps you should let some new blood in so that it can continue
to develop. It appears that factions are formed, the old against the new.
The easy solution is to prevent new thought in and be conservative and
stick with the old.
At least we know who our detractors are, Mark.
Ham, I'm sure you recognize that there are some in this forum
that seem to think that MOQ is more than it is. Possibly they
haven't thought the whole thing through, or perhaps this is the
only philosophy they know. Regardless, their elevation of MOQ
to some Godly stature is not consistent with my readings of Pirsig.
Somehow it is tabu to even talk about Quality, talk about Theism!
No, we can't do that, it would simply demean, it is not reverent,
children.
Yes, I once dared to describe the MoQ acolytes as a "cultist" group and got
severely reprimanded for it. They don't like to be called "dogmatic"
either. Still, it seems the loyalty to Pirsig is disproportionate to the
originality of his thesis. One explanation may be that ZMM became popular
in the "Flower Child" era when many of the "old guard" were susceptible to
New Age ideas. But I really believe the major reason for their devotion is
the author's sympathy with the secularist movement and its denouncement of
religiosity, occult spiritualism and supernaturalism.
I believe the fear of religion, which comes from lack of understanding
is what governs this. Some perceive religion to be somewhat weak
or mindless, but in truth those that truly subscribe to religion must be
much stronger than those who subscribe to simple logic is the sum
total of their stay here. Using simple logic, of course religion doesn't
work. What that means is that some have additional faculties that are
missing from the simpletons. It is their loss, they can rail against it
all
they want, but they won't get there using math. Just look at all the
great thinkers that were religious. Those in this forum (myself included)
do not even come close to them. But, as always, history teaches us
nothing.
It is "doctrine" that they're revolting against, rather than religion per
se. Unfortunately, they don't seem to realize they've replaced the old
"conservative" doctrine with new "radical" doctrine. Scientific objectivism
is universally accepted because the conclusions are fallible, whereas
philosophical pronouncements can never be. The trick is to "suggest" the
theory by innuendo and metaphor without formal definitions or logical
analysis. "We don't need to define Quality because everybody knows what it
is," typifies this approach. The less definition and analysis, the better
... or so they believe. What they leave out, of course, eventually catches
up with them.
I'm convinced that Truth is relative to the subject, and that philosophical
propositions are of little value unless they have credibility to the
individual who must ultimately choose to embrace them. This effectively
rules out dogma, rituals, and moral obligations imposed by external
authority or social pressure. Only when man learns to release himself from
the bonds of "intellectual servitude" will he be truly free to establish the
"authentic society" which I envision as his future potential.
Are you with me, Mark?
Essentially yours,
Ham
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