That network of relations is the way I see the world most fundamentally - quality is about those relations. The levels are emergent when certain patterns of complexity are reached in the arrangements of those relations.

There is no fundamental level of granularity in the nodes connected, no real objects. Each level has pragmatic conventional nodes involved in the relations, but the relations are more fundamental than the subjects or objects at either end.

Sent from my android device on the 3rd rock from the centre of the most recent big bang.

Ian

On 7 Nov 2010, at 11:07, Horse <[email protected]> wrote:

Hi Mark

As I was reading your post what popped into my head as I was trying to visualise what you were saying was a sort of network representation (I have a thing about DQ/SQ and the network approach!) with nodes as quality events and their separation as the arcs (vectors) between them. My visualisation was sort of multi- dimensional in order to accommodate the different forms of SQ (Inorg/ Org/Soc/Int) and the way in which the levels emerge but against a background (container?) of DQ. So the combination is all- encompassing Quality. Also, given a multi-dimensional approach this might also accommodate Magnus's Stacks idea with a network (nodes and vectors/arcs) based visualisation.
Does this add anything to what you're describing?

Horse


On 07/11/2010 07:33, 118 wrote:
Recently I have been suggesting a description of Quality (Q) as "that which separates". This is of course an analogy which provides a path to Quality,
or in other words, a finger which is pointing towards it.  Such an
interpretation emphasizes that which separates Static Qualities (SQ), rather
than what they are.  The interpreted separation, which could also be
approximated by Assigned Value (AS), is ever changing, thus creating a concept of Dynamic Quality (DQ). When two things are compared, or two choices are contemplated, it is the difference between the two that is the
intuited concept.

Such a concept converts the objects or subjects themselves, and their
dynamic interaction, to the Quality between. Approaching the notion of Quality in this way, provides a shift in view or paradigm, that results in
an evaluation of the cause rather than the product.  The degree of
separation of good and bad concepts would be a function of that which
separates them, or Quality. This suggests measurement of Quality, but such a thing can be avoided by stating that such measurement is meaningless since the objects are not real in themselves but simply a function of Quality, and as such do not provide inherent characteristics for measurement. The nonexistence of the things themselves could be imparted by describing them as geometric points, which are dimensionless. Or like the borders of the combined DQ and SQ which are again without dimensions but only describe the limits of apparent Quality as it is applied to specific examples. Personal or subjective sense of Quality would then become universal since it does not rely on our opinions of the things themselves. Quality itself would remain
untouched, as a primary (or absolute) creator.

In a broader sense, one could describe the Chinese concept of Yin and Yang
not as opposing dynamic entities, but rather ones which are separated
through Quality. Quality viewed in this way would approximate the Tao, but in a modern rational sense. It provides a conceptual understanding of a description of Quality in both its static and dynamic forms, as well as an
ineffable principle of separation.  The difference with Taoism is the
empirical notion of direction, as with Time. Time itself is a function of
the pressure that (DQ) puts on change.  Such change creates static
dissimilarities which result in preference. Preference implies choice. Such choice is directed by Quality, and could be seen as a vector with
direction.  The vector is not one in dimensional space, but is in the
metaphysical space of Quality. The concept of betterness could be used as a description of that direction. The magnitude of such direction on a time basis, is a direct result of the accumulation of dynamic quality. Such accumulation is a result of harmonic tendencies of Quality's expression.

In terms of the human mind, such separation results in the appearance of SQ, and the notion of DQ, as a result of the transfer of an infinite amount of information into simplified neuronal descriptions which appear isolated from each other. Such descriptions could be seen as the tendency of Quality towards its static appearce. The unifying factor is Quality, which is missed, because we do not consider this separation, only the descriptions themselves. An analogy in physics would be something like a magnetic field. If two magnets attract each other, the strength of that attraction would not be the result of the strengths of each magnet. Instead, the strengths of each magnet would be created by the magnetic field as first cause. This
would be a flip in how the interaction between the two magnets is
conceptualized. In the same way, colors are different not due to some inherent property of the colors, but due to an inherent property of what separates them. Two things appear differently due to the intrusion of
Quality.  Since the objects themselves do not exist outside of this
separation, Quality encompasses them and becomes the source of everything. Another way to look at it is as the spaces between letters on a page.
 Words are created by the white portion of the page, not the black.

This form of description is not difficult to grasp in theory.  The
difficulty comes from trying to conceptualize the world in this way because our training or education has been based on just the opposite. Such a paradigm shift could happen slowly with practice. One Zen practice is to stop labeling or naming things one sees, but rather to look between such things with a more holistic sense. In the same way, the codependent arising of things could be simplified into the ebb and flow of DQ, or the tendencies
of Quality.

Just a rough thought, open for discussion if desired. The intent is to provide a framework for easy transfer to the beginning student. I'm sure there are many problems with it, at least in such a simple description

Cheers,
Mark
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