No coincidence I label myself non-theistic John, if pushed for a label. A-theistic / atheism is, like scientism, as dogmatic as any theism. Agnostic is too disinterested to be any use to me, I need as you suggest, need to know where questions and answers about god fit - MoQ provides that. Agnosticism can only ever be an incomplete or temporary state.
Ian On Sat, Nov 13, 2010 at 9:36 PM, John Carl <[email protected]> wrote: > I believe I have peace of mind, at last. I was thinking last night that > while I can't see the MoQ as either atheistic anti-theistic, I do think it > is and should be, non-theistic. For one thing, as a tool, it'd be > completely useless if it couldn't ask, "what good is your god?" For another, > It's chief value and purpose to those with theistic orientations and > conceptualization, is to remind them always that their conceptualizations > are choices, that even if there was such thing as an objectively real > God, outside of your conceptualization, it wouldn't matter. You are still > and always stuck with that fact that any God that could be, or is, is "only > in your head". > > The trouble as I see with labeling the MoQ plainly atheist, is as I told > Dan, the MoQ is no more anti-theistic than it is anti-theory-of-gravity. > People come up with ideas to deal with their world. The MoQ says they do > this as a function of Quality. What the MoQ is against, is assigning > objectivity to subjective ideas about reality. Or reification, in simpler > term. And what usually goes by the name "atheist" does this just as much as > any theism you can name. Which is why I have no peace of mind with the > therm "atheist". It's a 'connotation" thing. I'm sure y'all understand. > > But non-theist, I can live with, even though technically speaking "a-theist" > means exactly the same thing. Atheists in the flesh, however, usually > aren't simply non-theists, they are usually actually strident anti-theists. > They think religion should be abolished in the name of scientific > rationality. The MoQ sees through that silliness - "scientific rationality" > as just another thing that's only in your head. > > Now I realize there are many, if not most, on this list who will strenuously > disagree with me. And this is for the very good reason that they truly are > antitheistic, and wish to force that view upon the whole. They don't have > any patience for varieties of religious experience, because they've got an > axe to grind, an anger to assuage or a social group to conform to. Thus > psychological dependencies that won't withstand question or inquiry, as dmb > so helpfully projected from within his own soul. But how can he help it? > When I'm talking about the common connotations of "atheist", I'm talking > about the academic community: chief enforcers of an anti-theistic view based > upon a long, long pattern of community - formation through enemy > scapegoating and a social mechanism that is easy to explain with an analogy. > > > Take a cage full of monkeys, with a room inside the cage. Put shock collars > around all the monkeys, and a banana in the cage. Now, every time any > monkey approaches the room and the banana, shock all the other monkeys. > Very soon, anytime any monkey approaches the cage the other monkeys beat the > shit out of him. Obviously. After a while replace a monkey or two with new > ones. Ignorant of the social rules, they go for the banana and get set upon > immediately. No shock treatment necessary. Keep replacing monkeys, till > all the original ones are gone, all memory of shocking punishment forgotten, > but a persistent pattern of persecuting any individual that goes for the > forbidden banana. The evolution of social patterns, the fear of ghosts. > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
