[Mark] I can see that we are at an impasse here. What I am suggesting is to look at things through the view of Quality, not Western logic.
[Arlo] This is precisely what I've done, and I'm not sure how better to say this. Sex = Biological pattern. "Rape stigma" = Social patterns. (often conflates shame and humiliation- and punishment- on both the aggressor and the victim as a means of controlling what it sees as a sexual (albeit deviant) act) Rape laws = Intellectual patterns. (controls the social patterns by defining the act as one of violence, removes shame and humiliation from the victim, and is based on the idea that each individual has a "right" to control their bodies) Each is put into place to dominate the level beneath it. You are right, "rape law" has nothing to do with the biological urge for sex. I never once said it did, so who are you arguing with? "Rape laws" were enacted to dominate the social practices of controlling sex (biological patterns) via stigma, beatings, shame, humiliation, etc, that were more about viewing women as the property of their husbands (social level) than preserving the freedom to control their bodies (intellectual level). (I think this is evident very strongly in the fact that until very recently, a husband could not "rape" his wife). On the biological level, "sex" is a pattern of Quality, a response of the organism to its environment. On the social level, women became the property of men and "rape" was seen as property theft, and social patterns dealt harshly with sex that met this definition. On the intellectual level, rape laws were enacted to control the social patterns and to define the "freedom" people have to control their own bodies. I think you could also argue that the social response sees this act as "sex" (deviant sex, or unsolicited sex) and a large part of the stigma is to protect the woman or man from social shame and humiliation, whereas the intellectual level sees the act as violence and has moved to control the social patterns of "forcing shame" surrounding this event. I think you can clearly see this in other cultures when a raped person is ostracized, in some places expected to take thier own life to preserve the honor of their family, or treated as though they ought to be ashamed forever of what had happened (rape stigma). The intellectual level has sought to dominate this, by defining the act as one of violence (not sex) for which the victim should have no shame (rape laws). PS: I've changed the topic thread since this has moved into its own topic. Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
