Hello everyone On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 8:31 PM, 118 <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi John, Dan, > > On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 6:03 PM, Dan Glover <[email protected]> wrote: > >> You're framing this intellectually and logically but you're missing >> the Dynamic issues that RMP is attempting to bring to light with the >> hot stove analogy. >> >> All experience begins Dynamically... every moment. It is only later >> that we conceptualize it into meaningful experience. Granted, it >> happens so fast that we normally fail to even notice it happening. I >> think zen practice may help bring this Dynamic experience more into >> focus but I hesitate to say so on account of muddying the waters. >> >>>John: >>> Without conceptualization, there can be no experience. The very essence of >>> experience is a realization of a something which requires a concept of some >>> kind. >> >> Dan: >> Disagree. Without conceptualization there is no intellectual >> experience but there can be experience before the intellectualization. >> That's what the hot stove analogy is all about! >> > [Mark] > I would still argue that the process of intellectualization is as > dynamic as it gets. One cannot consider the act of > intellectualization to be anything other than the dynamic aspect of > Quality. If we want to separate what intellectualization is, from > other parts of awareness we find that there is no boundary. It is all > awareness. It would seem that some may distinguish the parts that go > into a Martini, from the shaking (or stirring) or the final martini as > being something different, but is it? This sense of a separate > compartment certainly glorifies the intellect as some divine thing, > but does not stand. Intellects get together and create other things, > these intellects at work are also a form of dynamic quality.
Dan: >From LILA: "Dynamic Quality is the pre-intellectual cutting edge of reality, the source of all things, completely simple and always new." Dan comments: Please note that Robert Pirsig says that Dynamic Quality is "pre-intellectual", not intellectual. It is simple and always new (just in case John is reading). >Mark: > One could say that the electricity going into a TV is somehow more > real than the picture coming out, but again I do not see the boundary > there. We cannot look back at experience, the act of looking back is > experience in itself. It would seem that there is a false boundary > between dynamic quality and the intellect. Zen would deny such a > boundary. The intellect in operation is part and parcel of DQ. We > divide it up into SQ for the purposes of communication and societal > needs, but of course that division is artificial and used primarily > for imparting awareness, and cohesiveness. > > I'm not sure who I am agreeing with here, perhaps I have once again > gone off on an irrelevant tangent. If so, my apologies. Dan: Yes I would agree it is irrelevant in that this has nothing to do with the MOQ. Dan Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
