re Reductio ad absurdum, in answer to John.
(You did read ZAMM, I presume, and are aware of Pirsig's eloquent reductio ad absurdum which proves this point beyond question?)" Adrie a conclusive pitch from the author,with an embedded end-prase named as a "reductio ad absurdum", concluding on the conclusion,will only flag the value of the statement, not to a relative value, but to a conditional truth. Change the conditions of the observables/variables, change the observer himself,and the reductio drops the additional absurdum-phrase. Only proving that conditional truths are relative, but relative truths not always so. (Only as an aside) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- adrie 2011/2/3 118 <[email protected]> > Hi Adrie, > > Try as I may to express my view on morality or quality for that > matter, it appears to be misinterpreted. > > You are stating that the universe is amoral by human standards. The > example appears to be that it allowed the dinosaurs to die off, and > such a thing can be considered to be either immoral or amoral; again, > by human standards. > > Where did our standards of morality come from, if not from what we are > made up off, or what surrounds us? How is it that only humans have > morality and nothing else? One could state that the exinction of the > dinosaurs was highly moral from a planet's perspective. > > Just because it does not seem to encompass morals from our standards, > does not mean it doesn't exist. It has to exist for us to encompass > it. We do not just make these things up our to nothing. We are > guided by them. If you believe in Darwinism, would you say that such > a thing is amoral? If so, how would you explain that we use morality > to preserve the species. If preserving the species is Darwinistic, > then morality is also Darwinistic. It is impossible to separate the > two. So called natural forces are moral, and we accept them and do > our best to abide by them with our interpretation of such universal > morality. > > An amoral universe would imply that we are somehow separated from the > universe. I do not see how such a thing is even conceivable. Perhaps > we are Gods in our own right and create everything. Perhaps... > > I could go on, but I will leave it at that. > > Mark > > On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 5:44 AM, ADRIE KINTZIGER <[email protected]> > wrote: > > re towards Ham. > >> " (I happen to believe that the universe is amoral.)" > > > > I think Ham is correct, in this phrase. > > > > If Ham is saying that the universe is indifferent towards morality, i > agree > > with him. > > Take morality out of the universe's window, and the universe will shine > as > > ever. > > When de dino's dissapeared the universe did only change the fact that the > > dino's dissapeared. > > Nothing else. > > > > 2011/2/2 John Carl <[email protected]> > > > >> Ham: > >> > >> > >> > (I happen to believe that the universe is amoral.) > >> > > >> > > >> This makes no sense at all to me, Ham, how could it possibly be? How > can > >> morality even be defined, except through that which promotes life? And > the > >> universe obviously produces life, so it must be intrinsically moral. > >> Unless > >> you can explain this to me, I view all the rest of your wordification as > >> mere babbling nonsense. > >> > >> A "glass darkly" indeed. > >> > >> Very darkly, imo. > >> > >> John > >> Moq_Discuss mailing list > >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > >> Archives: > >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > >> http://moq.org/md/archives.html > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > parser > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > > Archives: > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > -- parser Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
