Hi David, On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 6:10 PM, David Harding <[email protected]> wrote: > Ian, Mark, et al. > > dynamic or Dynamic Quality? > > What's the difference? > > Are they the same thing? > > If they are, then aren't we all defining the undefinable when we say > something, such as Ian does with music below, is dynamic? > > If the MOQ really is a way to live ones life. Shouldn't we be able to say > then, what is and is not Dynamic Quality? If the MOQ really is good then > shouldn't we be able to categorise something in either of the two boxes of > the first division of the MOQ? I'm seeing a lot of people getting stuck on > this point and I think the blame can be laid on the use of this term > 'dynamic' which avoids the issue entirely. > > 'dynamic' muddies things where the first division of the MOQ brings clarity. > > So that said. Ian, is art Dynamic Quality or static quality? > > [Mark] I think you are getting all caught up with the notion of definitions. Pirsig does his best to explain Quality. It is not in the objects themselves but in how they are expressed. Such expression is akin to interaction. Interaction is not the same as two objects interacting. Undefinable does not mean we cannot talk about it, it only means that words do not suffice to encapsulate it. Sure we can say what is and what is not Dynamic Quality, I don't see why you have such a problem with this. But no, we cannot fit it into a box, that is what is meant by undefinable. We sense examples of Dynamic Quality all around us, you are just getting caught up in the words. God is also undefinable, yet people talk about it. For many, to be in the presence of God is exactly the same feeling as being in the presence of Quality. I am not getting religious, I am just trying to analogize a sentiment. It is not a thing, it is a dynamic relationship.
If what you are looking for is a set of instructions, then you are out of luck. Dynamic Quality comes through self-realization, it is ones personal relationship with ones existence. It is undefinable, it just is. One cannot learn what dynamic quality is by reading a bunch of books. It is beyond learning, it is participating. The whole purpose of dividing up Quality the way that Pirsig does, is to convey the impression he has of Quality. If you take what Pirsig states literally, then you will always miss the point. As you know, he could have described Quality in a hundred different ways, such is the power of rhetoric. So, don't get too hung up on what words mean exactly, listen to the dialogue. What we try to do here is find a common ground. This is not done through using the same words, but through conveying the same thing. Let us use art as an example, since you asked. Painting is dynamic, art is static (an analogy of course). You get it? It is not that complicated, it is all laid out in Lila. Pirsig is simply trying to explain that the expression of things can be divided into two (as a rhetorical analogy for conveyance of sentiment only, not literally). On one side there is the creator, on the other side is the created (again, another analogy so don't try to pick the words apart, that will get you nowhere). We don't have to subscribe to any mystical notion like something we cannot conceive of. As Pirsig states, everybody knows what Quality is. As soon as you resort to putting it into boxes, you get farther and farther away from what you know it is. Pirsig cautions on this. I the word dynamic muddies up the water, then by all means use a different word. It doesn't matter, they are all just words. Express it in the way you see it, maybe a light will come on in a reader's head. Don't mistake the words for what they are intended to represent. Cheers, Mark > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
