On Apr 17, 2011, at 9:01 AM, X Acto wrote: > > > Dan said to Marsha:> >> "Lila" as presented in my quote above doesn't refer to the "Cartesian >> self." RMP has stated that is an illusion. Lila refers to the Dynamic >> choice which drives evolution... not to an individual. I thought that >> was clear but I guess not... >> >> Dan > > Hi Dan, > > Then you changed the subject, because I was speaking of the illusion > of the ME, the "Cartesian Me" having 'freewill" and making "choices." > I will expand my former statement, the preferences of the biological static > patterns of value are further shaped by social static patterns of value and > intellectual static patterns of value. And with these preferences WE build > stories of how and why and when and where and with whom, which create > pleasure and pain. Stories. > > Ron: > But we do have freewill and choice , we are defined by differing levels of > freedom of choice, yes the "I" the self, whole, complete is an illusion. > It's why we do not really go for Ham's essentialism because it rests on > the assumption of an autonomous self, which immediatly isolates experience > to the intellectual level and thats where explanation begins by setting the > stage > then dragging the self in sideways like a god in a play. > The way I see it, the self emerges from Quality the self is an agent of > betterness. > Understood as a product of Quality it becomes less of an illusion. > > We are stories but those stories are values > > and those values are what we mean when we say that something is real. > > Marsha: > . And yes, understanding > these preferences intellectually is better than letting them run wild, but > let's make sure we understand that that "Cartesian Me" is illusion. And I > am not sure we've done that. > > Ron: > We've done that. That is probably causing some of the confusion. >
Marsha: Maybe then it is a connotation attached to 'freedom' and 'choice' that I find peculiar. It's like thinking the choice may be between this iceberg and that iceberg, while most influence for an event is associated with interconnected static patterns of value that are unseen. But it sounds like you are saying you are assigning 'choice' and 'freedom' as additional synonyms for Quality. So synonyms for Quality are Value, Experience, Morality, Choice, and Freedom. Are there more? Is that what you are saying, that choice and freedom are additional synonyms? Or are those synonyms for static quality alone? I've been reading the posts and there seems conflicting connotations the issue. Marsha ___ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
