Hi J-A, Even before you responded, I remembered a picture of your being drawn by horses on a sleigh (?). As I recall it looked like you were going straight up into the stratosphere. So my apologies. At least I didn't get you confused with that Jack-Ass Belgian nut.
It is all Greek to me, first or second. Well, in Dutch it means what I said, but now I detect a bit of righteous German in you. Nothing wrong with that if it is put to good use. I enjoyed your opinions below, and will add a few of my own. > > On Jul 6, 2011, at 5:55 AM, Jan-Anders Andersson wrote: > >> Hi Mark >> >> Sorry to make you disappointed but I am no Dutch, I am Swedish. You can find >> me on Youtube, search for Jananderss. The name Jan-Anders is greek and would >> be translated to First Man in english. Altough I've got an elder brother so >> actually I was the second son. I am glad my parents didn't call me Parcifal. >> A good example that shows that B doesn't strictly follow A. Which is >> characteristic of human free will. [Mark] I am not sure if this is characteristic of human free will or not, since we do not know what should follow A, and often don't even recognize "A" when it is right in front of us. But OK, I will play along. >> >> One characteristic of humanity separate from other organic species is that >> their kids does not follow their parents habits. If human children would >> try to perfectly imitate their parents like buffalo calves or young chickens >> do, then humanity still would be climbing trees or wandering around along >> the border between land and the sea eating raw fish, seeds and carrots. And >> there would not be thousands of different fundamentalistic churches of >> unreason on Earth. [Mark] I am not sure if you are referring to nature or nurture here, but you are wrong on both accounts. My question to you is, what is it exactly that separates us from the monkey. It is not the DNA since that is almost 100% the same. So it must be nurture, hey? Now of course the child does not follow the parent, since one is a nurturer, and the other is nurtured. I like areason more than unreason, for the latter implies that there is some reason of some kind. Kind of like the difference between atheist and untheist. >> >> Humanity doesn't follow deterministic laws even if many would like it to be >> so to feel more safe and ensured. Free will entail to some extent that not >> everyones behaviour is statistically predictable which for some people is a >> quite worrying issue. There will always be some freaks out there that will >> perform Unnatural Acts and come up with Mutated Mind stuff. Like Pirsig, >> Zappa, Einstein or Planck. [Mark] No humanity does not follow a deterministic law, but nor does anything else. Even Pirsig recognizes this. Nothing is predictable. We predict what we want to happen. So you like the Mind stuff, so do I, that is why my posts seem the way they do to you. Let's not forget Buddha and Socrates while we are at it. Now, Zappa was one of the few geniuses that I could recognize. I saw him four times one summer in Southern California, and each concert was completely different. Apparently he always did this to not get bored. >> >> Of course there are time. Time is the space around events that makes events >> happen. Change is the ultimate evidence for the existence of time. [Mark] I liked your triad of Quality better. At least it was constructive. You should return to that. >> >> The events at the 4th level are like game rules, art or just music. It is so >> fking fun to just play around. It was nice to see that you had some quality >> experience from playing basket ball. If you don't like playing with the ball >> maybe you could try playing some music or just sing a simple song. You can't >> do that if you aren't equipped with free will and with a certain amount of >> available time, do you? Frank Zappa claimed "You can't do that on stage >> anymore" because what he did is already in the past, it is history. But we >> can do something else. That is why Music is the best. This is also why I >> don't believe in mindfucking yourself. >> [Mark] Yes, the fourth level is like Hesse described it in the Glass Bead Game, truly a game. I used to be a drummer, and still have an affinity for the drum-base part of music. It forms the foundation for guitars and other instruments to play around. I am a firm believer in free will, as I have posted many times. I think it is Steve that needs convincing, although he contradicts himself so many times that I am not sure what argument to present to him. >> I am having a real good time following this forums mindbouncing. David >> Buchanan, Matt Kundert and Horse are really sharp. I do like Marshas >> buffoonery too which completes the picture af MD filling up the casting for >> Commedia dell'arte. Most of the contributors in MD seem to be searching for >> THE one and only Truth. But there is not One Truth. Value is caused by more >> truths. Events are a result from a division between the momentual reality >> and what it could be. Quality experience is the meeting between how it is >> and how it it could be. Value is created by the division between these two. >> The bigger the difference, the stronger power or will to make a change. >> Logic condtions separates the possible from the impossible. The intercourse >> between different events creates the individual pragmatic value of the other >> event. Sue likes Bob but Bob is more interested in Lila... [Mark] Yes, there are many sharp people on this forum. Unfortunately there are few that are creative such as yourself. And I agree, there is no One Truth, in fact there is no Truth at all (rhetoric 1: dialectic 0). In my opinion everything is as it should be. Otherwise, one is always dissatisfied. This is what westerners call "suffering", of course this was not what was meant by Buddha and his disciples. You are starting to sound like Ham and his value, I must commend you on that. Ham is extremely creative. He has created his own self-consistent metaphysics. No doubt distance makes the mountain dearer, if that is what you mean. >> >> I am working on a little pamflet which I plan to be ready about the end of >> next year. It is about quality and is based upon the lowest common >> denominator of the 4 levels. In fact this is another set of four; time and >> the meeting of 3 independent conditions which together creates value. The >> true moralic imperative we could call it. [Mark] I look forward to your pamphlet. Will you post excerpts here in this forum? >> >> Beware of your mind, it may keep you alive and fooling around! [Mark] I have no need to beware of my mind just as I don't beware of my heart or my liver. All of these parts keeps me alive and "fooling around". One's mind is a wonderful thing to witness, and is even more interesting than the stomach (which comes in a close second due to its mini-brain). The important thing is not to identify too much with one's mind, otherwise you may begin to believe that you are your thoughts. What a waste that would be. Talk about deterministic. Later Mr. No John, and don't forget to add a little peppermint to your licorice. 118 >> > > ___ > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
