Steve said:
...One distinction which may clear up a lot of confusion in discussions here in
general and with Bo's objections in particular would be to be careful about use
of a term as opposed to the mention of a term. Here I think we ought to say
that a menu mentions food, but it doesn't use food. Only a living being can do
that. I think it may help to see what Pirsig is doing as making a mention-use
distinction to avoid any metaphysics-reality confusion. I haven't thought much
about it as of yet, so I am hopeful that others will have more to say on the
issue.
dmb says:
Menus don't mention or use anything. Only a living being can mention or use
terms and menus. So I really don't see what you're trying to say.
Anyway, I think it's interesting that James used the same menu/food metaphor to
make the same point, except he called it a "bill of fare" instead of a "menu".
Menus are good so long as they lead you to a fine meal, he said. But they are
not food and we ought not mistake them for food. One real pea is better food
than all the menus in the world, he said. James and Pirsig are both saying that
there is always a discrepancy between concepts (sq) and reality (DQ) and this
menu metaphor is just one more way of illustrating that distinction. This same
distinction also appears every time Pirsig points out that Quality can't be
defined and it is the central distinction at play when Pirsig says that the
METAPHYSICS (concepts) of Quality (reality) is a contradiction in terms. This
same distinction shows up where he reads the opening lines of the Tao Te Ching
as if it were about Quality; the Quality that can be named is not the real
Quality. This is the central distinction of the MOQ and
, like Bo, you take all this business about being cut off from Quality as a
claim entailing Greek Truth or Objective reality.
By the way, Steve, you repeatedly asked for my reasoning as to that claim and I
gave it to you a couple of days ago. Are you doing an impersonation of Lucy, or
what? Have you been taking Marsha lessons again?
Trust me, you say?
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