Hi dmb, I am speaking one level above you. I am speaking of Quality which Pirsig tries to examine through a metaphysics. It is not the metaphysics that matters it is what it is trying to explain.
Do you think MoQ is a good description of Quality? If so why? I only suggest that you don't get bogged down in the particulars. Pirsig could have used a thousand ways to present Quality. If you do like his presentation, then explain why. Providing quotes will not help you here. Cheers, Mark On Nov 23, 2012, at 8:57 AM, david buchanan <[email protected]> wrote: > > Mark said to dmb: > ... Any philosophical discussion must therefore view MoQ as a model which > attempts to lead one towards a view through Quality. It makes absolutely no > sense to dwell on the specifics of MoQ as if the answer lies therein. This > is why I wonder why you quibble about finer points from Lila and do not > address the big picture. ...For many, Reason is seen as an answer. It > should have been made clear to those who read ZAMM, that reason is best as > rhetoric. ...It is time to leave Pirsig behind and think for yourself. > > > > dmb says: > Quibble about the finer points?! Nothing could be further from the truth. I'm > saying that you and Marsha are just plain wrong about the most basic > distinctions and core concepts. Your claims directly contradict what Pirsig > says. That's why I quote him in response to Marsha's anti-intellectual > nonsense. There is a mountain of textual evidence and yet you both persist in > ignoring it. Reason isn't the "answer" (whatever that means?) but it is > certainly the focus of his project. > > "the thing to be analyzed, is not Quality, but those peculiar habits of > thought called 'squareness' that sometimes prevent us from seeing it. ..The > subject for analysis, the patient on the table, was no longer Quality, but > analysis itself. Quality was healthy and in good shape. Analysis, however, > seemed to have something wrong with it that prevented it from seeing the > obvious." > "He did nothing for Quality or the Tao. What benefited was reason." > > "He [Phaedrus] felt that the solution started with a new philosophy, or he > saw it as even broader than that...a new spiritual rationality...in which the > ugliness and the loneliness and the spiritual blankness of dualistic > technological reason would become illogical. Reason was no longer to be > "value free." Reason was to be subordinate, logically, to Quality." > > "So I guess what I'm trying to say is that the solution to the problem isn't > that you abandon rationality but that you expand the nature of rationality so > that it's capable of coming up with a solution." > "Now I want to show that that classic pattern of rationality can be > tremendously improved, expanded and made far more effective through the > formal recognition of Quality in its operation." > > These passages are quite explicit and clear, so much that I can't believe > anyone needs to do anything fancy to "interpret" their meaning. All you gotta > do is read and think just a very little bit. What he's saying is very clear > and obvious. > > The subject for analysis is analysis itself. What benefited was reason. The > point and purpose of the MOQ is a root expansion of rationality. The MOQ is a > new philosophy, a new spiritual rationality. > > The "solution to the problem ISN'T that you abandon rationality", he says. > Quite the opposite. You "EXPAND the nature of rationality." > > > That's is why your (and Marsha's) anti-intellectual bullshit is just plain > wrong. It turns the core concept and main purpose on its head. It's like the > anti-MOQ. This upside reading is not an alternative interpretation. It's just > wrong. It is just a willfully ignorant contradiction of all the evidence. > > > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
