Good choice of words ;-) Bye for now (over our limit) Ian
On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 11:04 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: > > Ian, > > I am not disagreeing, but I doubt that it ever gave up on him. > > > Marsha > > > > On Jan 24, 2013, at 5:56 AM, Ian Glendinning <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Agreed - You miss my point - he didn't dismiss it entirely - but he >> did give up (for a time). >> >> On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 10:43 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: >>> Ian, >>> >>> When he returned from Korea and before he went to India he was studying >>> philosophy in Minnesota. Metaphysics can get under your skin. I am not >>> saying that Eastern philosophy was the only influence, but it's too easy to >>> say that he dismissed it entirely and forever at the tender age of >>> twenty-three. I don't buy it. Besides it is my favorite part of the >>> story. I, too, became very disillusioned with Eastern studies and went >>> back to college to study Western philosophy. >>> >>> Finally, helping to setup a Zen Center is a bit of 'actions speak louder >>> than words'. >>> >>> >>> Marsha >>> >>> >>> >>> On Jan 24, 2013, at 5:22 AM, Ian Glendinning <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Ah yes, >>>> >>>> That's true, but that was before he started on science (biology) and >>>> originally became dissatisfied with the received wisdom of scientific >>>> premises. >>>> >>>> I doubt attachment to that narrow kind of rationality was the cause of >>>> his subsequent giving up on his first foray into Eastern philosophy. >>>> >>>> Although - it is not at all clear what did cause this - it's something >>>> I've pointed out he (or Wendy) needs to elaborate on in his own story. >>>> Hence my interest. >>>> >>>> (My guess is that he probably found a superficial hippy / new-agey >>>> interest in those visiting India at the time, and didn't find it deep >>>> enough philosophically that time around.) >>>> >>>> Ian >>>> >>>> On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 10:09 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi Ian, >>>>> >>>>> I came to this conclusion from the last dvd (all packed away at the >>>>> moment) where Mr. Pirsig talks about having to give his father rational >>>>> reasons for _everything_ (exp. using the car). I'm sure his father had >>>>> good intensions; maybe to train him to be a lawyer. But of course this >>>>> is what I intuited, it's speculation and not fact. His helping establish >>>>> a Zen Center is not the action of someone who "gave up" an Eastern >>>>> interest. I cannot believe that his trip to India did not have an >>>>> influence despite not providing easy palatable answers. Realization is >>>>> not something that is Hindu, or Zen or Buddhist. It is a personal >>>>> experience beyonds words and labels. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Marsha >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Jan 24, 2013, at 4:04 AM, Ian Glendinning <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi Marsha, >>>>>> >>>>>> Not sure it was "hyper-rational" parental influence specifically, he >>>>>> was already dissatisfied with "science" and looking for something - >>>>>> but Pirsig does strongly emphasise that he gave up any Eastern >>>>>> interest after this earlier unsatisfactory experience. "Gave up" - his >>>>>> words. >>>>>> >>>>>> It was only after the "seed crystal" in Bozeman, that the story >>>>>> started to fall into place, and the rest is history. >>>>>> >>>>>> Ian >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 8:48 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> When RMP fled India and the University of Benares, he was twenty-three >>>>>>> years-old. That was at the beginning of his journey, long before his >>>>>>> awakening and while he was still under the influence of a >>>>>>> hyper-rational reality gifted to him by his father. imho That he >>>>>>> later helped establish a Zen Center points to a reconsidering of >>>>>>> Eastern philosophy. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>>>>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>>>>>> Archives: >>>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>>>>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >>>>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>>>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>>>>> Archives: >>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>>>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >>>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>>>> Archives: >>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>>> Archives: >>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>> Archives: >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org/md/archives.html > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
