Hi John, Dan and other MOQ freaks. The question was: Is there a way the universe just is?
If there were no imperfection at hand nothing would happen from the beginning, no change, no event at all. There would be no reason to change a perfect composition. My guess is that the infinite number of π, which is the result of the division between distance and perimeter is the anomaly that hold things going on. If there IS a universe there will be a relation between distance and circumferences. The annoying high quality idea of ∏, as Quality in the MOQ sense, is impossible to define exactly. Jan-Anders, God's proxy for tonight. 3 apr 2014 x kl. 21.05 skrev John Carl: > Hi J-A, > > > On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 1:33 PM, Jan-Anders Andersson > <[email protected]>wrote: > >> Hi there >> >> Before the Big Bang or should we say at the oldest point of change number >> one, there was absolute nothing, no world or time. > > > > Really? I'll have to take your word for it, I wasn't there. But it seems > that nothing can be nothing when there isn't something for it to relate > to. So it's like dividing by 0. Meaningless. But if that myth makes you > happy, I'll go along for the story's sake. > > > >> After change number one there is a piece of world which is all there is. >> This world has age, entropy and volume and measure, so My guess is that >> some of the proportions are not perfect > > > How can the Universe be judged imperfect? The universe is its own cause > and the universe is its own interpreter. Our values and ideas derive from > the Universe (however its constituted and however it arose) so who can > judge it either good or bad? Or big or small? Or old or new? You'd have > to have a frame of reference for that kind of guess, and the universe IS > our frame of reference. > > > >> which causes next event to occur. One simple imperfection could be the >> infinity of the division between the width and the area of a volume. Pi is >> my guess. >> >> Jan-Anders >> >> > > I don't think I can go along with your story. Prove that you're God, or > sit down. > > Yours, > > John > > > >>> 2 apr 2014 kl. 21:01 skrev John Carl <[email protected]>: >>> >>> Dan, >>> >>> Its good to hear from you. >>> >>> >>>> On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 2:32 AM, Dan Glover <[email protected]> >> wrote: >>>> >>>> From Religion without God: >>>> >>>> "Here is an ancient philosophical problem. Is there a way the universe >>>> just is? Not for any reason but just because that is the way it >>>> happens to be? >>> >>> >>> Jc: I'd say yes. The Universe is it's own finite cause. >>> >>> >>> >>>> Will theoretical physics one day hit a wall that means >>>> there is just nothing more for it to learn? >>> >>> >>> >>> Jc: That's not a question of the nature of the universe so much as it >> is a >>> question of theoretical physicists. The Phaedrus hypothesis is the >>> hypothesizing is infinite so it's just a question of when they get tired. >>> >>> >>> >>>> Will it end just in >>>> pointing a finger at what just happens to be? >>>> >>>> "The philosopher Gottfried Leibniz thought that a just-happens-to-be >>>> solution like that makes no sense. Nothing happens, he said, unless >>>> there is a "sufficient reason" for its happening. God made the >>>> universe and so it is a sufficient reason for the universe being the >>>> way it is that God wanted it that way. >>> Jc: that's a ridiculous postulatinon - first of all, causation isn't of >>> the universe, its of human thought. Secondly, by his logic, Why is there >> a >>> God? It's an argument that obviously leads to infinite regress. >>> >>> Jc: >>> >>> >>>> "Bertrand Russell declared that "the universe is just there, and >>>> that's all." Richard Feynman, who is often called the most important >>>> physicist since Einstein, said that he could hope to explain how >>>> things work but not why they work that way. We must just accept, he >>>> said, "Nature as She is-- absurd." >>>> >>>> Dworkin, Ronald (2013-10-01). Religion without God (p. 77). Harvard >>>> University Press. Kindle Edition. >>>> >>>> Dan comments: >>>> I notice that Robert Pirsig asks much the same questions in Lila: >>>> >>>> "Metaphysics is what Aristotle called the First Philosophy. It's a >>>> collection of the most general statements of a hierarchical structure >>>> of thought. On one of his slips he had copied a definition of it as >>>> "that part of philosophy which deals with the nature and structure of >>>> reality." It asks such questions as, "Are the objects we perceive real >>>> or illusory? Does the external world exist apart from our >>>> consciousness of it? Is reality ultimately reducible to a single >>>> underlying substance? If so, is it essentially spiritual or material? >>>> Is the universe intelligible and orderly or incomprehensible and >>>> chaotic?" >>>> >>>> I think he answers the questions much like Richard Feynman. He >>>> explains the how by ordering unfolding experience into four static >>>> quality levels while simultaneously suggesting the why is beyond >>>> explanation. >>> DQ is an explanation. It's not a rigorously logical explanation, >> (defining >>> by the indefinable) but it's an explanation. >>> >>> Thanks Dan, It's been a while. >>> >>> John >>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>> Archives: >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >> > > > > -- > "finite players > play within boundaries. > Infinite players > play *with* boundaries." > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
